Making a Hunter Europa Unsinkable

Fascinating discussion - but need to get back to basics. How many people have died because their small yacht sank in circumstances where unsinkability might have made a difference? Hard to think of any. Just read the Fastnet report. Small yachts are remarkably resistant to sinking. A couple of builders have made "unsinkability" a major feature of their designs, but for all their merits otherwise have never really made it in the marketplace.

Better to spend the effort time and money avoiding getting into a situation where your boat sinks, which is clearly what most people do given that sinking is so rare.
 
Making a boat unsinkable

Regarding high/low location of buoyancy, Etap and Sadler make/made unsinkable boats with foam-filled cavities between outer and inner mouldings and it appears to me from inspecting my Sadler 29 that these buoyant compartments are all low down and don't extend far above the normal waterline. I assume that these manufacturers tested their products and found that they proved stable when flooded. Any info. on such tests?
 
Sailing Today tested a Sadler quite thoroughly- by flooding it with water until completely swamped. They had to add extra water and found that it naturally wanted to float a bit higher, allowing the water to spill back out again. In all states it was able to be sailed quite effectively. Can't remember where I read all of this, probably somewhere on thsi forum! But it does show more support for the 'low down buoyancy' theory.

On the matter of filling your lockers with buoyancy- clearly the best thing to do is fit airtight hatches to all lockers and divide your boat into a series of compartments. This is harder to do than strapping in bags but has so many benefits- you can have just as much storage volume available (provided you don't make the whole boat too heavy!), and you can limit the extent to which any water that enters the boat can flood to another compartment.
 
Some interesting comments... thanks.

I feel it’s worth re-iterating that this is a hypothetical situation for me at the moment. If I were to be sailing into waters where unsinkability was an issue, I doubt I would choose to do it in my Europa... I think, even I, would consider a bigger boat! However I think it would be possible. I also should add (probably unnecessarily!) that I have no experience of that type of ocean sailing...(yet!)

I would consider unsinkability very useful in situations where hitting objects is likely - ie in high latitudes with ice present. It is also debateable how useful a liferaft would be in such remote areas. My choice would always be to stay with the boat and sail myself to safety if that were possible and survivable.

Immersion/survival suits are certainly something I would invest in - probably would be necessary just to operate such a small wet boat at high latitudes at all.

I also own a copy of Very Willing Griffin - David Blagden didn’t make her unsinkable as such but did have five watertight compartments and a collision bulkhead as well as reducing the size of the cockpit and some significant strengthening modifications. She was definitely more than a ‘production’ boat.

I reckon that it would be possible to make the Europa into an unsinkable high lat cruiser but it would have to be done with extensive modifications, such as those undertaken by Roger Taylor and other Jester Challengers.

My thoughts regarding airbags were more of a half-way house solution which could provide confidence when needed while still allowing ‘normal’ use of the boat in less extreme areas and conditions. For me it’s more about buying the time needed to pump out the swamped or damaged boat. If your boat sinks when flooded, then your time on board is severely limited! I would guess dying of cold is still going to take longer...

As to placing buoyancy high or low... this post is too long already!:D
 
Both Sadlers and Etaps have been subject to tests by magazines that clearly show they float when all the seacocks are open, and that they can make some progress under sail. Etaps also gain exemption from the daft French regulations about carrying liferafts if you go more than 12 miles offshore. However, very few are sold in France which begs the question - why? or why not?

"Unsinkability" is one of those concepts desparately looking for a problem to solve!
 
Tranona said:
"Unsinkability" is one of those concepts desparately looking for a problem to solve!
Click to expand...

Hi Tranona.

You're point (and your previous post) is a very good one. As you say in most 'survival' situations the boats seem to keep floating anyway!

But I think that very very few people sail to areas where a liferaft isn't the best solution. I mean by that, situations so remote that you have little hope of being picked up. I think this is largely why there is so little data as you say.

I would say that yachts that actually sail in high lats make up a tiny percentage.

The market for unsinkability is small because most people sail in places where hopping into the liferaft and ringing the insurer will ensure survival... (If you'll excuse the flippancy!:rolleyes: )
 
A little on the position of buoyancy to correct some misconceptions in posts above. Sadlers 26, 29 and 34 had polyurethane foam blown between the inner and outer skins, plus a few larger areas such as the floor of the aft cabin/quarterberth, toilet plinth, etc. There is no foam higher than the deck/hull joint. The total has always seemed to me to be remarkably small.

The buoyancy available decreases with size of boat, so the 26 can be sailed when completely flooded, whereas this photo shows how the 34 will lie when holed.

Floater.jpg


Holed.jpg


I assume the 29 would lie somewhere between the two.

Supporting what Tranona says, this is the only Sadler I ever heard of in which its buoyancy was ever tested in emergency.
 
Little Rascal said:
But I think that very very few people sail to areas where a liferaft isn't the best solution. I mean by that, situations so remote that you have little hope of being picked up. I think this is largely why there is so little data as you say.

I would say that yachts that actually sail in high lats make up a tiny percentage.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that liferaft usage is almost as rare as boats sinking and generally not very successful either!

If you are going sailing in hostile places then you need to build a boat for the conditions - not try and modify boats that were never designed for such situations. Have a look at Skip Novak's Pelagic as an example of what you need to deal with the potential dangers successfully.
 
Tranona said:
I think you will find that liferaft usage is almost as rare as boats sinking and generally not very successful either!

If you are going sailing in hostile places then you need to build a boat for the conditions - not try and modify boats that were never designed for such situations. Have a look at Skip Novak's Pelagic as an example of what you need to deal with the potential dangers successfully.
Click to expand...

I agree that's what I'd do if I had the money. Hang on... this is a hypothetical debate: I do have the money!:p

Seriously though. Yes building for conditions probably 'best practice'. But plenty have done it with modded boats: Willy Ker, Bob Shepton, Tilman, David Lewis, with varying degrees of success and some failures, I grant you...
 
If you are really seriously concerned about your boat sinking.... and want to make sure it cant, then I would park it in your back yard and turn it into a planter.
 
Unsinkable

The question of location of buoyancy is readily resolved in the case of sailing dinghies. These capsize and fill with water readily. Most small cabin sailing boats have bunks built on each side covering the turn of the bilge. Buoyancy at the turn of the bilge is the best place to encourage self righting or stability of the flooded boat. These areas are usually fitted with lids to enable stowage under the bunks. All you have to do is make the lids watertight.
Add to this as already said tanks at the bow and buoyancy at the stern.
My little boat type still in manufacture I understand now comes with a bulkhead under the cockpit across at a location which defines the length of the quarter berths.
This would not only give buoyancy but would isolate any damage from rudder stock or pintle damage from hitting or fouling objects.

However a small boat weighing less than 1 tonne will have much less inertia than a bigger boat so hitting a shipping container ice or any other nasty is more likely to stop the boat injuring you in the deceleration than tear a hole in the hull. This especially because the hull tends to be thicker relative in size to larger boats with closer support structure.
I dropped mine off the trailer onto concrete with no real damage a long time ago.

What can be a real danger and has happened around here a few times is that smaller boats can be laid over (with too much sail) and water can enter via the open main entrance or front hatch. The boat will quickly lose stability and allow more water to enter.
I have seen a Farr 727 sport floating with just a metre of the stern and rudder to the sky. Another 27ft light weight racer was flooded and fortunately was towed to shallows where the next day it was drained. Both these from bad seamanship over powered and hatch left open. (both from our club) Or again a boat similar to mine in Melbourne with front hatch open broached and driven under with spinnacker. All things that you can easily remedy.
Good luck olewill
 
reeac said:
Regarding high/low location of buoyancy, Etap and Sadler make/made unsinkable boats with foam-filled cavities between outer and inner mouldings and it appears to me from inspecting my Sadler 29 that these buoyant compartments are all low down and don't extend far above the normal waterline. I assume that these manufacturers tested their products and found that they proved stable when flooded. Any info. on such tests?
Click to expand...

I've seen at least two reports of Etaps being sailed with the seacocks open. Can't reference them, however.

While it's true that few boats actually sink, I can state that, from the viewpoint of one who once put out a mayday from a sinking boat, the knowledge that your boat is unsinkable is quite reassuring...
 
pvb said:
You could theoretically use airbags to make your boat unsinkable, but it would be totally unstable, may well invert, and wouldn't be likely to provide you with adequate shelter to survive.
Click to expand...

Well, continuing in the hypothetical vein, if you could mould an inner polystyrene filler section which completely filled the bilges of the boat up to the level of the waterline then she'd be completely stable. You'd need to drill holes in the hull to let the water out of course...

This would obviously need to be done at design time, not least because you'll need something like tea trays on wheels to move about in the restricted headroom :D

Boo2
 
Little Rascal said:
Willy Ker, Bob Shepton, Tilman, David Lewis, with varying degrees of success and some failures, I grant you...
Click to expand...

And none of those were "unsinkable"! Yes, of course people use modified boats because custom built boats are too expensive, but there is a big gulf between them and a 19footer with bouyancy bags!
 
My E-Boat has had the white polystyrene foam treatment as described by the E-Boat Association. It is under all the berths, in the aft locker, under the cockpit and most importantly, under the decks to provide stability.
The hatch lower washboard was glassed in place, and the top washboard has lockable pegs to prevent it floating out. I always close the hatch in heavy weather.
These prevention measures ensure I should be OK if the going gets really tough. There are pics on the class members only website pages showing another foamed E-Boat full of water actually sailing with the sails up and 5 folk standing on deck. There is around 10" of freeboard. Very impressive pics!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top