Make own safety harness chords - OK or asking for it?

CharlesM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making your own safety lines, as already said 'Don't be put off by doom mongers'.
Of course if you are going to do it it should be done correctly, and as you yourself point out if one breaks and somebody else dies, then you may indeed be liable.

However that aside, I work as a Rope Access technician and myself and thousands of others all work with home made safety lines, as approved by British Standard Code of Practice for Rope Access.

Here are some very important points to bear in mind though:-

Climbing tape is definitely not a good product to use, climbers use them for belaying etc and they are not subjected to shock loading. They are in fact low stretch and though are capable of withstanding a static load of 22Kn (2.2 tonnes) they will break quite easily if subjected to a shock loading.

Personally for sailing I use a commercialyy made sailing lifeline though I have yet to look into the suitability of them for a shock loading situation (which is likely to be what you get if you fall overboard in heavy weather) I suspect that they are low stretch and therefore in my opinion unsuitable. I would be interested to see any specification or testing for shock loading on sailing lifelines.

What we use is dynamic rope (climbing rope) of (say) 11 or 12 mm you can attach it direct to your harness and to a carabiner or similar on the other end thus saving one carabiner. A barrel knot is probably best to attach it to the carabiner as it locks it in place so the carabiner is always in the right attitude. A carabiner is not really the best item for sailing though if you do use one you should use a screw gate or better as a non screw gate can twist off if you are not careful.

As said already, do not use a bowline, they can come undone, use either a barrell knot as I already rcommended or a double figure of eight.

It is quite easy with rope to make one long enough to have two lines so that you dont have to disconnect to pass any obstructions etc.
 
No problem with good DIY, but bowlines in webbing would be poor.

If you must make your own (despite minimal savings), use stout rope rather than webbing and work out the breaking strain and decide if it is sufficient to cope with snatch loading (well you are relatively unlikely to fall over the side GENTLY ....) /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.
 
Biggest problem with the idea is the knot. A knot in a length of rope is one thing, but in a piece of flat webbing? Also a lifeline is unlike any other line on board because it has to deal with snatch loads. Snatch loads are quoted on a safety line, steady loads quoted on the webbing you would buy for the DIY job.

Re: Climbing carabiners are no good? - Not so sure, they are made to cope with some pretty harsh conditions.
 
I'm intrigued by the notion climbing slings are not designed for shock loads. That's exactly what they need to cope with when a leader comes of and is caught by a running belay. The stretch missing in the belay is compensated for by the stretch in the climbing rope. It isn't necessary for everything to be strretchy. I can't imagine any situation on a boat where the snatch loading would be even close to that experienced in a fall on the rock face.
 
there are 2 problems with karabiners- they aren't designed to survive in a salty environment so the hinge pin may not be stainless. more importantly the gate can open itself when twisted through an eyebolt and the screw-type is not quick release. gibb and wichard hooks can't self-open but can be operated with one hand, even in gloves.

to knot tape, either into a loop or to join two lengths together, use a 'water knot'- make a thumb knot in one tape and ensure it is flat: the knot will have a pentagon shape. then thread the other piece of tape through the knot to lie flat on the first one.
 
You cabn buy or make what you like but it iosnt a lot of use in the normal slung around neck position.
 
"I regularly go up the mast on a similar set up. " Why ?I rarely proceed more than a meter abvove deck level,am I doing it wrong??
 
I had some webbing made to length at a building site supply shop. The guy behind the counter asked me what I wanted to use them for. I explained. He said that he could make them, and sell them to me as i wanted as personal protective equipment, which needed to be certified, or as strapping hoist to keep equipment down.

Exactly the same material and construction, yet different qualification, and 50% price difference
 
True, the stretch is compensated for in the rope length. Dynamic rope stretches by 15%. Low stretch rope by 5%.
However climbing is a risky pursuit and climbers take risks with their belays that a yachtsman never needs to.
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I can't imagine any situation on a boat where the snatch loading would be even close to that experienced in a fall on the rock face.

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It is surprising just what forces are in play.
Falls are measured in what is termed 'Fall Factors'
Fall factors measure the relative severity of a fall in terms of the shock load upon the equipment and user.
The fall Factor is calculated by dividing the length of fall(m) by the length of rope holding the fall(m) or;

FALL FACTOR(FF) = <u>LENGTH OF FALL</u>
<font color="white">LENGTHOF ROPESSS </font> LENGTH OF ROPE

It is important to ensure that the Fall Factor is kept to a minimum. Whilst dynamic rope is capable of withstanding a fall factor 2 when new it s a good practice not to exceed FF1, and likewise it is good practyice not to exceed FF 0.3 with a low stretch rope.

Using the above formula if your lifeline is 1 metre long and your belay is level with your waist you will fall 1 metre, therefore Length of fall is 1 m diveded by length of rope 1 m, your Fall Factor is 1 if you stand above the belay so your fall is 2 metres onto the same 1 m lifeline your FF is 2, this could break a low stretch rope or tape.

Furtherore the forces of a FF2 of low stretch could seriously damage your body.
The potential energy in a fall = Mass x Gravity x Height Fallen
in an 80kg person that is 80 x 9.81 x 2 = 1569.6 kJ (kiloJoules), not many bodies can take that kind of force.

These are very small distances but very large forces and when falling overboard in a storm situation I think it is pssible to reach these figures.

Incidentally people working at height such as scaffolders who may fall short distances have by law to wear shock absorbing lanyards because without one a fall of just 2 metres could kill or seriously injure them.
 
I also asked the same question a while back.

In the end there was a simple answer - if I used suitable clips then the price of the parts to make my own would be only marginally less, or even possibly more, than to buy made up ones.
 
surely you people are kidding yourselves... Try reading the coroner's report into the 1998 Sydney To Hobart race and tell me afterwards that you'd prefer to save a few bucks. Having survived some overboard incidents I will only ever put my faith in tried and tested equipment which has a certified safety rating. Perhaps I won;t be around to sue if it all goes pear shaped and the tether fails, but at least it will be someone else's fault.. not my own stupidity from being a cheapskate
 
Well, Tia I still think it comes down to a choice of how we spend our (usually limited) money. My choice did include combined harness/lifejacket and I paid extra for a stretchy lifeline because I preferred to spend on that area rather than other areas which people consider equally (or more) vital to safety.

When the lifejacket was fully immersed, it failed to inflate and if I'd ever looked at the mechanism rather than trusting to a well-known make then I'd have understood why, and prevented it from failing, with a bit of simple DIY.

Re: the posts about falling loads, I think that misses out what happens when a solid bit of wave sweeps across a deck. That imposes quite a bit of force on a body and therefore the harness line, and I'm sure that's way beyond the (quite large) force of a simple fall. You also have the snatch load of a few tons of boat righting itself after the wave has passed, possibly whilst you're still falling.
 
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stupidity from being a cheapskate

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Just because you bought the item from a store with a certified safety rating, does not necessarily make it the best product for the task. For instance have you actually any idea to what standard your lanyard conforms and how it is rated?

To discuss the options in this forum does not make us all stupid does it?

As I have stated above, in my industry (rope access) the home made lanyard is proven to be better than any commercial alternative and is approved by the British Standard Code of practice.
However I currently use a bought sailing safety line for sailing.
 
OK - point taken ... BUT :>

WHO fitted the attachment points on the boat ? Have you a certificate of test for them ? Have you a certificate of test for installation ? Who fitted / made up the webbing / wire / etc. standing safety line along the boat to attach to ?

Sorry - but your point is made weak because in 99% of cases the safety line we are talking about is connected to a point or running webbing etc. that has been fitted by Joe Blogs ......

I believe - maybe I am wrong ? - that most would actually make an item such as this more purpose designed to the boat / use needed and also over-engineered .... instead of the general purpose compromise produced comercially.

As already stated on a previous post .... comercial shipping will replace such items themselves without buying from swindlers .... As a cadet - I was taught only trust your own handiwork - QED.
 
I'm with Graham. If you are making your own what's wrong with a decent piece of rope and eye splices. But I have learn't something about having a second shorter line. Better get splicing.
 
“Having survived some overboard incidents”
Gosh! This suggests you have fallen overboard at least three times. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Over what period of time is this?
What do you put it down to:
Drunk
Clumsy
Lack of due care and attention
All of the above
Or, lets be charitable, just bad luck?
 
As someone who has been towed along at 5knots+ on a 4mm bungee (this was on an RS800 when I became unclipped from the trapeze wire but caught on the elastic!) I would quite happily make a webbing strap - if I could for reasonably less than a purchased one...
Trusting a CE Mark? surely it is down to the condition of the materials your using and not a little badge that says it is ok...
Common sense must prevail...

If you want to use a strap then I wouldn't tie a knot in it.
If you want to use a rope then 14mm should be plenty big enough - if it is nylon then it will stretch slightly with a shock load.

Fortunatly I have never had to rely on one - but I'm sure the day will come, and we had several straps that came with the boat - all in good condition....
 
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