Mainsheet traveller - the best position?

[BlueSkyNick]

Chatting with a friend yesterday who is looking to buy a boat which has the traveller at the front of the cockpit, across the companionway, and me looking for a boat with the traveller just forward of the wheel. It transpired we each disliked the other's preference and considered the merits.

For me, a mainsheet must be easily accessible from the wheel for short handed sailing. Across the companionway is inconvenient for going down below, especially when sailing hard on the wind. Also dangerous to crew in the sheltered part of the cockpit when gybing.

For him, a track across the middle of the cockpit is even more dangerous on a gybe, and can foul the wheel, engine controls, instrument pod etc.

Having had centre cockpit boats until now, the traveller behind the cockpit is attractive, anything atop the coachroof is too far away.

What arrangement do others prefer?

 

[dylanwinter]

End main

that gets everything completely out of your way, you can steer and hold the mainsheet with one hand

but then I only have a little boat

works for me though

Dylan

 

[Searush]

Mine is just in front of the wheel, but I have chosen to fix the traveller amidships because of the risk of accidents. I did consider the idea of a fixed doghouse to replace the sprayhood with the main sheet traveller on the aft end of that out of the way.

An overhead s/s horse still seems a good solution for cruising with family.

Edit; Sorry Dylan, but the Mizzen sheet has prior claim on that position in my boat.

 

[DogWatch]

Mine is behind the helm.

 

[30boat]

Mine is behind the tiller.It's good because it is completely out of the way and people won't trip on it .Access for releasing quickly for instance is so so.The downside is that in the event of a gibe the sheet tries to take one's head away.

 

[Lakesailor]

As others say, on bridgedeck it gets in the way, you can't reach from the helm and (in a small boat) it wastes a passenger space or two.

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[fireball]

Easy at hand is good if it has the right purchase.
Last boat was on bridgedeck and whilst ok for 2 onboard it became a pain when upwind. Gybing wasnt an issue as I could grab the mainsheet and haul across.

Now I have a coachwood mainsheet. Its more of a pain to adjust but it is completely out of the way even during a crash gybe. In fact the only time I have to worry is when the sprayhood isxdown and we're off the wind.
The other niggle is that the friction is too great for it to ease in lighter winds so I end up going forward to pull a load of line through, but on balance, for us it is currently the right arrangement as if ocerpressd she just rounds up so I just have to take that into consideration.

 

[Perry]

I bet Tony Bulimore's crew wished theirs was a bit nearer as the huge cat rolled over !!

 

[johnphilip]

Cautionary tale

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications...d_preliminary_examinations_2007/buccaneer.cfm

The link above to a fatal accident report shows how dangerous the mainsheet can be in an uncontrolled gybe. In this case the mainsheet is mounted forward on the bridgedeck. However the close to wheel position is hardly any better as the arcing mainsheet sweeps most of the cockpit. Since reading this report I have considered a boom brake. I did once ask the forum for advice but received loads of abuse and sarcasm for allowing an accidental gybe.
Cabin top mainsheet, safe but poorer sail trim. Pays your money and takes your choice.

 

[electrosys]

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications...d_preliminary_examinations_2007/buccaneer.cfm

The link above to a fatal accident report shows how dangerous the mainsheet can be in an uncontrolled gybe. [ ...]
I did once ask the forum for advice but received loads of abuse and sarcasm for allowing an accidental gybe.

I very nearly sliced someone's hand off once, when causing an uncontrolled gybe - which is my No.1 reason behind opting for a balance mainsail - junk or balance lug. How did it happen ? Easy.

I sail with a tiller - all the time. Then one day I join a team-handed charter on a 40-odd foot sloop and immediately get my head down, having been sailing all the previous day. Late in the afternoon I'm woken and called to the wheel - we're racing straight downwind on a freshening wind with the spinnaker up.

I'm still half asleep as I adjust the helm - the wong way. Think about it - if you want to 'turn left', you push a tiller to the right - or turn a wheel to the left. Opposite directions. You know the rest.

Others can mock if they like - to me tillers and outboards make sense. Wheels are ok if you're used to 'em. I'm still not, at least not on a boat. Hate the things.

Give me a tiller and an uncontrolled-gybe-proof rig any day.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Nick, I'm with you on this, but then it does depend on the size of the boat. On Galadriel, the traveller is just in front of the wheel, primary winches either side, easy to sail single handed. This arrangement then leave the cockpit free for crew/passengers.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Jumblie has the traveller just behind the companionway, but her cockpit is so small - full up at three - that (a) there isn't really anywhere else it could go and (b) it's easily to hand for the helm.

The Jouster (no reasonable offer refused) just has an anchor point in the middle of the cockpit sole. OK, rather less control over sail shape, but it works well for cockpit space.

Finally the Hunter 490 originally had a traveller at the companionway. That was modified to one crossing the cockpit, but I de-Lakesailored it ad put it back where it started as I value the unobstructed cockpit. Seems to work OK, except that it's a wee bit in the way when the auxiliary is in use ... me with a pair of oars.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

.

For him, a track across the middle of the cockpit is even more dangerous on a gybe, and can foul the wheel, engine controls, instrument pod etc.

Having had centre cockpit boats until now, the traveller behind the cockpit is attractive, anything atop the coachroof is too far away.

What arrangement do others prefer?

Got the baby version of what you are looking for and this has the sheet in front of the wheel. It was what I specifically wanted having had a Moody with the sheet in front of the sprayhood.

Works well. Have only had one accidental gybe and no problems but we did have a club member who completely removed the wheel binnacle with an involuntary gybe on a Sigma 35.

In front of the wheel is handy for single handing and gives far better control of sail shape than in front of the sprayhood. Gets in the way when going aft and the biggest problem - makes it difficult / impossible to mount a cockpit table to the binnacle. It is also a PITA with the cockpit tent / wendy house because the boom has to be shackled to the toe rail.

But to me it's sailing performance that matters most so the advantages outwiegh the disadvantages.

Wouldnt consider a sheet behind the wheel. Its one thing to remove the binnacle in a gybe, its altogether another to throttle the helmsman.

 

[Robin]

Traveller behind the helm worries me in really bad weather as an accidental gybe could decapitate. I once took a Westerly Oceanlord back from Cherbourg to the Solent in a downwind gale and even with a preventer rigged I was very concerned that the mainsheet crossed behind me at about neck level.

Traveller ahead of the wheel and across cockpit is most efficient from a sail control point of view but a real PITA otherwise and a potential danger for hands as well, same goes and even more for one across the companionway.

Traveller on the coachroof is best for cockpit space, safety and comfort but less good on sail control features.

The idea of needing hand control of the mainsheet is relevant really only in smaller boats IMO, bigger ones are not sailed like dinghies and will almost certainly have instant autopilot control available at the press of a button allowing the helm to do whatever wherever.

Our last boat had a coachroof mounted traveller, proper Harken roller cars type and the mainsheet came back via a clutch and winch to the coachroof, along with all the reef lines, main halyard, kicker and traveller lines. This worked exceptionally well and if you wanted to dinghy style sail then easiest was to forget the mainsheet and play the main on the traveller like opening a barn door. With a full width track the geometry allowed a very large angle of adjustment. In practice however, most of the time the autopilot was on and every control easy accessible from ahead of the wheel anyway, the cockpit was clear of gear, the bimini could be up or in harbour the full canopy in place.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

I think it's worth noting that the report on the fatality aboard Buccaneer does not refer to the position of the traveller as a factor.

Someone I used to know had his arm broken by the mainsheet aboard a Rival 34 (traveller immediately aft of the companionway) when an inexperienced helm accidentally gybed. What most of these accidents seem to me to have in common is (as the MAIB report referred to notes) an inexperienced helm under insufficiently close supervision.

It's accidental gybes (avoidance of) that should have our attention rather than traveller position.

 

[bluedragon]

No one solution fits all. Depends on a) size of boat b) single-handed / size and experience of crew c) racing or cruising. Personally I hate mainsheet travellers that cross the cockpit itself, but most racing sailors wouldn't be without them. In front of sprayhood (as we have now)...pain in the arse to manage from the wheel, but very safe for crew. So nobody is "right" or "wrong" here. Depends on personal priorities and type of sailing done.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

As others say, on bridgedeck it gets in the way, you can't reach from the helm and (in a small boat) it wastes a passenger space or two.

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Bluddy hell, Lakey, were there reports of a pub's roof falling due to a missing beam, soon after you fitted that

 

[BlueSkyNick]

It's accidental gybes (avoidance of) that should have our attention rather than traveller position.

Agree accidental gybes are an issue, but not the only one. I am concerned about other factors with the t traveller location, hence my question.

 

[bedouin]

The answer of course is to go for a tiller rather than a wheel Plan B would perhaps be to go for a centre-cockpit boat and mount the traveller behind the helm.

However I suspect neither of those will satisfy Nick

IMHO the mainsheet needs to be within easy reach of the helm, so if I had to go for wheel steering I think having the traveller immediately in front of the wheel, with both the sheet and the traveller lines easily accessible to the helm.

The exception of course would be a boat designed to be sailed fully crewed when it would be a clear advantage to have it further way from the helm

I am not sure I agree that either position is safer in the case of an uncontrolled gybe as it depends entirely on the location of the crew. Mainsheets mounted on the bridgedeck can often get perilously close to the people entering/leaving the cabin, and to crew near the primary winches

 

[Lakesailor]

Bluddy hell, Lakey, were there reports of a pub's roof falling due to a missing beam, soon after you fitted that

I made it in softwood I had to hand to try the idea out.
It never seemed to get replaced with the craftsman-built, laminated, aerodynamic item I had in mind.