mainsheet system - westerly storm

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Chae_73

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Hi all

I'd like to replace the mainsheet system on our Storm (sheet and blocks only, traveller is ok).

Current system is 6:1 with course / fine I think - two lines emerge with cam cleats on the block, you can either pull both lines for course or one line for fine.

problems with current system:
blocks are chipped and cracked
line seems to be over sized - too much friction in the system
cam cleats are worn and it's hard to operate with one hand when helming

having googled, similar kit seems to be available from Harken and Lewmar. Lewmar website is awful to navigate!

what I am wondering:
Do I need 6:1? Mainsail is approx 240 sq ft, we aren't going racing so will shorten sail to suit conditions;
Current sheet is either 12mm or 14mm. I'd have thought 10mm would be adequate, but 8mm would not be good from rope handling point of view?
There is no winch available for the main sheet so whatever system we get needs to be ok for manual hauling

I'm struggling to find the right kit for this job. The 4:1 from Harken seems nice and simple; not sure about 6:1 right angle thing. It's boom end fitted.

Harken Sailboat Hardware and Accessories

Here's a bad picture of the current system, apologies for the loose limes all over the place - taken when we were running the reefing lines for the first time since acquiring the boat.
 

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I think you’ll struggle with 4:1

The Harken diagram shows the mainsheet exiting at 90 degrees but in reality the cam cleat on those triple blocks can be adjusted up and down. Personally I would be very reluctant to drop to 10mm line for a mainsheet purely on line handling grounds. If you go with Harken and a new mainsheet you’ll get lovely blocks and it will work well but the list price for everything is around £1k. I don’t think I’ve ever spent that much on a mainsheet system!
Harken link to their ‘Ratchomatic’ blocks and I’m not sure you need those? However going to their standard carbo blocks only saves £70 from my quick glance. They’re also specifying a swivel upper block and some people strongly suggest that the block on the boom should NOT be a swivel block.
You could always ask the advice of a rigger?
Obviously you don’t need to pay full list price for any of this gear. Once you’ve specced the system shop around.
 
I had a similar 6:1 system that was good for fine tuning, but realistically, never used as I too am a sedate cruiser type. I had a 12mm sheet running through it and that was about right for handling with un gloved hands.
I've switched to a 4:1 system now and quite honestly, it's fine and more than adequate for the type of sailing I do. Also there's a lot less mainsheet flying about, with only the one not two lines from the block.
12mm rather than 10mm for me
 
I’ve sailed a Storm (Storm no 1 “Electric Storm” ) but it’s such a long time ago that I can’t remember much about the mainsheet loads only that ours had a continuous mainsheet. Try asking on the Westerly Owners Association website? Another Storm owner might have had a similar problem?
 
I'd never have 10mm for a mainsheet! I have a very old 12mm that has 'relaxed' with age and is more like a 14mm (I really must measure it one day) and feels much, much nicer in that hand than all of my 10mm sheets and halyards.
 
Fitting too thick sheets was a problem when we bought our Storm, compounded by the rope being time-expired and quite stiff. Make sure you're sitting down when you price up a decent pulley system.
 
You currently have an Easy Marine EasyMatic block system. This is what I have on my Fulmar. I chipped one of the block cheaks and replaced both blocks as I like the coarse and fine control the double cam cleats. They are available through Seamark Nunn. This link shows the lower block and there is a link to the upper block on the page. Total cost is £259.57, not cheap but they do work well.
Easy Marine Easymatic 1 Lower Double Violin Block 6:1 / 3:1 with Double Easy Servo Cleat 93102
 
Personally, I would always have a ratchet block.
On a main and boat that size I would consider a 4:1 with a fine tune of maybe 3 or 4:1. The fine tune is not highly loaded so can be made out of dinghy blocks.
But fine tune systems generally imply a block in mid air which can be a hazard if handled without due care.

Harken stuff generally lasts a very long time.
I've bought a lot of used Harken blocks on ebay.
It can be worth considering importing from the US&A.
Nautos blocks are worth a look?

This?:
Harken Hexa-Cat Mainsheet System 7:1 Purchase - Used – H170 / H048 + H076 | eBay
check out the SWL, but catamaran stuff is usually highly loaded!
 
If I get a double block with a beckett for the boom end and a double block with a cam cleat for the traveller end, I can get 5:1 on a simple single line system? Seems to me that I would prefer this to the current continuos sheet system.
 
Chae_73 said:
If I get a double block with a beckett for the boom end and a double block with a cam cleat for the traveller end, I can get 5:1 on a simple single line system? Seems to me that I would prefer this to the current continuos sheet system.
Click to expand...
No. Unless the cleat is on an additional block.
One of the lower sheaves goes to the cleat, so 4:1 would be lower block with cleat and becket, upper block plain double.
5:1 would be lower block triple with cleat, upper block double plus becket.
6:1 lower triple with cleat and becket, upper plain triple
 
TernVI said:
Personally, I would always have a ratchet block.
On a main and boat that size I would consider a 4:1 with a fine tune of maybe 3 or 4:1. The fine tune is not highly loaded so can be made out of dinghy blocks.
But fine tune systems generally imply a block in mid air which can be a hazard if handled without due care.

Harken stuff generally lasts a very long time.
I've bought a lot of used Harken blocks on ebay.
It can be worth considering importing from the US&A.
Click to expand...
My 34 M2 main has had 10mm diam line on a 4-1 system for 17 years. I have changed the sheet in that time & i do take it off over the winter. This year i fitted a 4-1 fine tune system so i can play with the leech up wind & then move the boom up & down the traveller. My sheet is attached to the boom 3/4 of the way along, not on the end. It has helped performance a bit & as I am getting older the last bit is far easier. But not needed for off wind work where 4-1 is ample. I cannot see the point of a ratchet as it causes friction. Ok for my Phantom but to each his own & it is a helms choice.
The fine tune is 8mm with a seperate block & jammer. Ideally I would have that on the floor & not the car but my liferaft sits under the traveller so both have to go on the car.
I did have Lewmar Spectra blocks but they broke very early on so I have Barton roller bearing ones.
There was an earlier comment about not having swivelling blocks. I agree fixed on the boom but not on the car. My blocks on the car are swivel pattern so I can adjust when under autopilot & infront of the track, instead of behind the track where I sit, Also easy for a crew to do it for me on the odd time I have one. It also allows for me easier access depending on which tack i am on
 
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Daydream believer said:
.....I cannot see the point of a ratchet as it causes friction....
Click to expand...
A decent ratchet is sod all friction when pulling in, but obviously enough grip on the rope to do maybe 3/4 of the effort of holding the sheet.
Great if you are playing the sheet in any breeze.
If the friction of the block is too much in light air, you turn the ratchet off, or you can get auto-ratchets which run freely up to a certain load. They are the business for dinghy kite sheets.
Ratchets are obviously good for racing but also avoid pulling your hand into the block when you uncleat and help in controlling gybes,
A lot of people find they can go down a ratio, like change from 6:1 to 5:1 with a ratchet, which is quicker handling and less string in the cockpit.

Would you have not ratcheting jib winches?
 
Consider Barton ball bearing blocks with a jammer. On my Moody 33 I fitted a fiddle, becket & cam with a fiddle block, with 14mm rope - suggested rope is 12mm but works OK and easy to handle. A big improvement over the original arrangement.
 
TernVI said:
A decent ratchet is sod all friction when pulling in, but obviously enough grip on the rope to do maybe 3/4 of the effort of holding the sheet.
Great if you are playing the sheet in any breeze.
If the friction of the block is too much in light air, you turn the ratchet off, or you can get auto-ratchets which run freely up to a certain load. They are the business for dinghy kite sheets.
Ratchets are obviously good for racing but also avoid pulling your hand into the block when you uncleat and help in controlling gybes,
A lot of people find they can go down a ratio, like change from 6:1 to 5:1 with a ratchet, which is quicker handling and less string in the cockpit.

Would you have not ratcheting jib winches?
Click to expand...
The OP was talking about cruiser mainsheets. Not dinghies. so the reference to dinghy kites is is not so relevant.
Winches are a different thing all together. One can take the sheet off the winch in a second & there would be no friction whatsoever. One can let a loaded sheet slip gently if one wished.
One does not play the sheet on a large main in the way one plays the sheet on a dinghy where one often does not have a cleat on the mainsheet. On a big mainsail one does not play the sheet so much as play the traveller. A cleat is still needed with the block & a hoop to hold the sheet in line with the cleat, otherwise it is awkward to locate sheet to cleat. Therefore, it is awkward to release the sheet. without the friction of the ratchet. Of course if one wants to ease it just a little, then I can see the advantage. However the 4-1 ( or whatever) copes with that & the fine tune helps even more, if fitted. The ratchet not releasing until the load comes completely off the sheet & letting the spring in the roller release. can be a nuisance creating unwanted friction at an awkward moment. Releasing the ratchet operation completely itself involves fidling with a little plastic part, so one does not do that every few seconds. Then why buy a ratchet to go & turn it off?
But as i said, it is every helmsmans choice. I have not seen one on a cruiser & I would not want one. In fact I have not seen cruiser sized one in a chandlers. That does not mean they do not exist & are not used. They possibly are. But a poor choice in my opinion. But only my opinion and of course you are perfectly entitled to give an opposing view.
 
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