mainsail raising issues - friction etc

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niccapotamus

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Hi

our new to us boat is 30ft. It has a fully battened mainsail with the halyard coming back to the cockpit; it exits the base of the mast via a sheave, runs through a deck organiser and then to some jamming cleats before getting to the winch on the coachroof.

The sail is hard work to raise - I have to put my full (not inconsiderable) weight into raising it about 3/4 of the way using the winch for the last bit.

We have freed up the deck organiser which was seized.

I guess I have three questions:

1. Is it too much expecting the mainsail to be able to be raised by my wife (at least to the 3/4 point) before reaching for the winch handle?
2. I'm after ideas to make it easier - with specific product recommendations as I guess it will mean greasing the sail slides, and the blocks etc.
3. if some lubrication doesn't make enough difference is there much else than I can try other than swapping the deck organiser for a newer one? Would a thinner halyard significantly reduce the friction (for instance)

thanks!!

nick
 
grafozz said:
try PTFE spray , it really helps and stays dry , dont use grease or silicon , too much residue
Click to expand...
+1

Also, check every turning point for the halyard, including the masthead sheave, carefully... it only takes one to make it hardwork... a well sorted mainsail system should allow you to pull the main all the way to masthead quite easily, with the winch only there to provide tension... personally, I wouldn't go for a smaller rope, as your problem is likely to be elsewhere, and then you pay a penalty in terms of comfortable handling (caveat: unless your main halyard is ridiculously oversized at present!)
 
I have Frederiksen sliders on our batten cars and they make raising relatively easy, but they are horrendously expensive and may not be worth it on a 30 footer. The main source of friction I have is the old Lewmar clutches. I have balked at changing them so have got into the habit of leaving the main halyard one open until the main is nearly raised, at which point my wife snaps it shut. Hardly ideal, but it may be worth seeing how much friction your closed clutch give rise to.
 
Here are some ideas.

1/ I was amused last year to watch a near neighbour on a mooring alongside my own struggling to raise his main. His boom was slightly low down and what he could not see was that the leach was becoming tight before the luff. The kicker / main sheet was stopping the boom from lifting.

2. I got a sailmaker to make me up a 1 ft length of bolt rope in a trainular piece of coth - a bit like the ones you see on racy boats holding the forestay steady in harbour. But mine was sized for the mast track. I soak this cloth in ptfe or silicone and hoist it up the track with a down haul. Up and down it goes several times, cleaning the track and lubricating it.

3/ are your blocks the right size for your halyard? Are they all free including the ones at the mast head?

4/ do you have the halyard inside the mast wrapped round the topping lift for example. I managed to do this once. It wasnt noticeable when everything was slack but as soon as you got any strain on the halyard it was like a friction clutch.

5/ are all the leads fair?

6/ I have heard it said before now that FB mains are far harder to raise particulalry if they dont have roller bearing cars. Something about putting pressure on the outside mast surface.

On my 35 footer and with me aged 69 I can just about lift my main without winch provided that the track is clean. I am not charles atlas but neither am I a 10 stone weakling. I think your wife might struggle with a 30 footer unless her hobby is arm wrestling you.

P.S. Why is it your wife raising the sail? She should be doing the easy bits like steering the boat whilst you do the strength bits like sail raising, anchoring, picking up buoys etc.
 
I replaced the Marlowbraid halyard with a Cruising Dyneema one of smaller diameter, and it made a huge difference. Less stretch as well.
 
Thanks Guys.

Birdseye - thanks for the list of stuff to work through! We are sharing most jobs so that we are both as incompetent as each other - so it is important to get the systems on the boat working so you don't have to be a gorilla to work them.
 
birdseye said:
Here are some ideas.

1/ I was amused last year to watch a near neighbour on a mooring alongside my own struggling to raise his main. His boom was slightly low down and what he could not see was that the leach was becoming tight before the luff. The kicker / main sheet was stopping the boom from lifting.

2. I got a sailmaker to make me up a 1 ft length of bolt rope in a trainular piece of coth - a bit like the ones you see on racy boats holding the forestay steady in harbour. But mine was sized for the mast track. I soak this cloth in ptfe or silicone and hoist it up the track with a down haul. Up and down it goes several times, cleaning the track and lubricating it.

3/ are your blocks the right size for your halyard? Are they all free including the ones at the mast head?

4/ do you have the halyard inside the mast wrapped round the topping lift for example. I managed to do this once. It wasnt noticeable when everything was slack but as soon as you got any strain on the halyard it was like a friction clutch.

5/ are all the leads fair?

6/ I have heard it said before now that FB mains are far harder to raise particulalry if they dont have roller bearing cars. Something about putting pressure on the outside mast surface.

On my 35 footer and with me aged 69 I can just about lift my main without winch provided that the track is clean. I am not charles atlas but neither am I a 10 stone weakling. I think your wife might struggle with a 30 footer unless her hobby is arm wrestling you.

P.S. Why is it your wife raising the sail? She should be doing the easy bits like steering the boat whilst you do the strength bits like sail raising, anchoring, picking up buoys etc.
Click to expand...


All exactly what I would have said :)

Mine is a 30' Masthead Sloop I am also approaching retirement age and manage to raise mainsail to last 2'0" My F/B Main though has Rutgerson batten cars which make raising and lowering easier.

Also check kicker isn't on and all reefing pennants loose, and boom relatively level or a little inclined I also leave Mainsail clutch open to hoist.

( Good idea about the piece of cloth, will have to try that as well)

Philip
 
We have the same problem albeit on a larger boat. With 2 of us aboard 1 of us 'sweats' the main halyard from the mast- it's fairly easy to take the sail all the way up and then just winch for tension.

John
 
niccapotamus said:
Thanks Guys.

Birdseye - thanks for the list of stuff to work through! We are sharing most jobs so that we are both as incompetent as each other - so it is important to get the systems on the boat working so you don't have to be a gorilla to work them.
Click to expand...

I mentioned the who does what issue because its one that was raised with us, early days, on a day skipper practical course. Its logical to have the physically weaker person do the lighter jobs yet its amazing how often you see the female with rope in hand ready to recover a mooring buoy whilst hubby drives the boat. SWMBO was on the same course :D so nowadays I get no choice. She drives, I pick up moorings, anchors, leap onto pontoons etc. And TBH she has become really rather good at sthat sort of close quarter driving. It makes sense TBH.
 
Several things to check:
Dirt in mast slot
Friction in sheaves
rope too fat/stiff
rope rubbing along deck
Halyards around each other in the mast (does slacking other halyards help?)
Sail/slides simply don't fit the mast!
clutch faulty
 
sailorman said:
you could always use the old fashioned method, one "sweating-up" at the mast & the other tail on the winch
Click to expand...

Doesn't work very well when the halyard's coming off a sheave at the foot of the mast.

Better to fix the friction problem than find different ways to ignore or hide it. I can hoist the main to the masthead by hand on our 34 footer, just using the winch to apply final tension, so the OP definitely has a problem somewhere.

Pete
 
prv said:
Doesn't work very well when the halyard's coming off a sheave at the foot of the mast.

Better to fix the friction problem than find different ways to ignore or hide it. I can hoist the main to the masthead by hand on our 34 footer, just using the winch to apply final tension, so the OP definitely has a problem somewhere.

Pete
Click to expand...

I can even normally hoist mine to the top with only tensioning as req with the winch
 
Obviously eliminating friction is the place to start but don't under estimate the weight of a fully battened mainsail. We had a new main this year which was a weight up in cloth and has an extra batten compared to the old one. The boat is 33 ft with Selden roller cars and judging by the way the sail rattles down, friction is not an issue. However, whereas both my son and I could pull up the old sail virtually to the top, even my son, whose a lot fitter than me, now struggles. Are you able to lift it easily when it's in the bag which will also be without the battens?
 
sailorman said:
I can even normally hoist mine to the top with only tensioning as req with the winch
Click to expand...

Exactly, so if the OP can't then there is a problem somewhere which he needs to fix.

When we bought Ariam both the masthead sheaves were knackered because the axle had worn the surrounding metal and slipped out of position, jamming the wheels.

Pete
 
If the boat is not on a swinging mooring but is berthed on a pontoon - like mine is - dirt will quickly accumulate in the mast slot. Regular cleaning and lubrication then becomes imperative. I have a similar arrangement as was mentioned earlier except that I use two short lengths that I made up with microfibre towelling instead of sailcloth. One is soaked in diesel to do the cleaning while the other is sprayed with silicon lubricant after the slot has been cleaned.
 
richardbrennan said:
Obviously eliminating friction is the place to start but don't under estimate the weight of a fully battened mainsail. We had a new main this year which was a weight up in cloth and has an extra batten compared to the old one. The boat is 33 ft with Selden roller cars and judging by the way the sail rattles down, friction is not an issue. However, whereas both my son and I could pull up the old sail virtually to the top, even my son, whose a lot fitter than me, now struggles. Are you able to lift it easily when it's in the bag which will also be without the battens?
Click to expand...
mine is fully battened 43` luff with friedricksen cars on the head & battens with slugs on intermediates, halliard led aft
 
Last edited:
Another reason could be that if the slides are not all equidistant from the luff there is probability of increased friction on a hoist from one or more.
I know this looks insignificant, but worth investigating. The clue is that the mainsail will go up a certain distance very easily and suddenly the effort required is out of proportion to the remainder of the lift. On inspection one or more of the slides will not be running up the track as easily as the others. Then this one has to be removed and reset to line up with the rest. Additionally regular cleaning and lubrication of the track is a help, and not forgetting on a hoist to ease the tension on the kicker as well.
 
sailorman said:
you could always use the old fashioned method, one "sweating-up" at the mast & the other tail on the winch
Click to expand...

Definitely the most successful - my rather large 5-batten main is a challenge to lift (and lower) and has been for 20 years. PTFE dry spray helps and the original Rutgerson batten ends were good - but too light in hindsight.
 
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