Main Sheet Traveller

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Dave_Noakes

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First question from a newbie. From several threads on here and from books etc, it would seem that the best way to control rounding up, excessive heeling in a gust is to let the traveller down to leeward. In my limited experience - DS, CS Shorebase, 3k+ miles- travellers can be a right royal pain to adjust quickly, especially with one hand on the tiller or wheel. I always let the sheet out in these circumstances finding it far easier to let out and recover. I know that, even with the kicker on, the boom will tend to rise and increase the twist , but surely that will help to reduce the drive which is the whole object of the exercise. Or have I got something horribly wrong? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks

Dave
 
Dave,

Hmmmmmmmm, I'm learning too! It seems to me that the advantage of letting the traveller down to leeward is that the sail trim as such doesn't alter - only the angle of incidence so that the sail stalls and spills wind. However this season I've actually found that it's better just to carry less sail in gusty conditions so that the boat can handle the gusts without changing sail trim. I've found that I've been going faster this year by reefing earlier (now about 17kts sees us with a couple of rolls in both sails) and keeping the boat upright (which swmbo much prefers!) leading to better boat speed.

rob
 
Not horribly wrong at all. What you suggest will work if you need to depower in a hurry in gusts.

However, if you are nearing the reef point, you will delay it by dropping the main down the traveller, tensioning the halyard, maybe pulling in a bit of cunningham, loading up the kicker, tightening the foot outhaul - in fact anything to flatten and sail and decrease its angle of attack, even feathering out the first third of the sail. If you still get overpowered in the gusts then it's probably time to take in a reef.
 
I race with my mate on his 707 and the fleet seems to be in two camps.

Those that lower the traveller to leeward and those that raise it and put in twist. One thing to bear in mind is that most of the 707 fleet do not reef so they have to find ways to spill wind. When I first joined them I thought they were all nutters, but now I think they're just very good at adjusting trim to suit conditions.

We're in the twisting camp. So we raise the traveller to windward ease off the kicker. In effect if we become over powered we can still go to lewward with the traveller if needs be and then the sheet, but otherwise we can get a nice main shape with lots of twist and still keep the boat powered up.

Best thing is to play, see what works for your boat.

I also do the same thing as the 707 on my Sigma33 and it works nicely.
 
I keep an eye on the king spoke on our wheel when others are helming and can easily see if we are being overpowered with too much weather helm - even if I'm below. The traveller is our first reef and can quickly be dropped to leeward to depower the main - sometimes this is enough to balance the boat, otherwise it's time for a reef

In light airs, bringing the traveller up to windward to centre the boom give sufficient twist to add a half-knot to our speed

I'm a great fan of the traveller!
 
Like Tom we adjust the traveller as the wind builds, drop traveller plus tighten backstay then reef. Then in light wind pull the traveller well to weather so the boom is at least on the centre line.

Tom does your boat bear away in the gusts? I see you say 'lee helm' not 'weather helm'. If that is the case you need to power up the main, dont you?
 
One thing no-ones mentioned is the position of the traveller. Having sailed boats with the traveller either on the coachroof or on a "hoop" above your head (thanks, Legend...), I agree they can be a right royal pain.

However we have the mainsheet traveller across the cockpit, right in front of the helm and find it an incredibly useful "first reef" if the boat starts to feel overpowered.

Another traveller fan!
 
We dont either - just two stoppers that we can adjust position .... so I tend to feather in those conditions - just luff up the boat slightly in the gust, then SWMBO gets her way and we reef and go faster - SWMBO is always right ... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Our traveller control lines were on jam cleats outside the cockpit, which was a right royal pain in the a***e as it meant going on deck to adjust them. I extended the control lines into the cockpit via eyelets in the sprayhood and fitted a pair of inboard clutches. It's now very easy to adjust them
Traveller_1.jpg


Traveller_3.jpg
 
Is that one of those Lewmar traveller kits? Bit pricey for me! Mind you our traveller is in the cockpit so I could attatch blocks to the side.

I think my more urgent requirement is for blocks on the genoa cars. I always forget to adjust them when reefing and end up having to wind the sail in twice.
 
I have to say I really like Tome's approach. I've currenly got my traveller controlled (or not) by jamming cleats. Its almost impossible to move the travellet lto leeward in a controlled manner.

Thanks for the idea, I'll do somethin similar for next year.
 
Any of the recirculating ball travellers eases adjustment.

I changed the Barton wheeled traveller (which didn't have sufficient X-section to resist distortion) and with a 2:1 purchase to a Lewmar recirculating one with 4:1 purchase. The difference has been amazing on my boat.
 
Look you can fratsare about with the traveller all you like but in the end a reef will be inevitably be called for so stop being lazy and get up to mast and get it sorted. She'll sail sooooo much nicer. She will. You know she will....
 
Yes yes!!! This is my first broad beamed, wide sterned, fin keel boat and it has taken me 2 years to realise that, with too much canvas up in a blow you seem to have to sail them like dinghies. I have only just started to understand that with this type of boat reefing early and, good sail trim is all important, both for comfort and speed. I went out in quite a blow on 12th august to put this to the test, sailing accross Weymouth bay with 28 knts of apparrent wind I put a second reef in the main, furled the jib to balance the boat and found the difference staggering, with an improvement in speed 7 ish knts sog, and a more comfortable sail.
In between the moderate slop we let the helm go, she sailed fine for about 45 seconds before gently starting to luff up.
It may take a while but I'll get there.
 
I don't know what boat you have but mention the following in case (and only if) it is rigged with a powerful rigid vang (either hydraulic or heavy tackle taken to a winch) and boom built to take the forces - then one can just power that down and it will hold the boom just as well as the traveller will when you ease the sheet (called "vang sheeting"). Many custom build fast cruising yachts are now, in fact, built without travellers at all, relying on the vang to keep the boom down - not often seen on production cruising boats due to cost cutting.

We have both a powerful vang and a wide traveller so have the choice - have to say that we rarely use the traveller.

John
 
Our 28ft classic use to have a traveller but after a few years of climbing over it I convinced Dad to return it to the Samson post where she use to sheet from. So I have got very use to vang sheeting and now we have updated the mast boom and new solid vang I can see now that the traveller is not necessary.
 
We use the traveller alot in gusty conditions but it must be easy to do; just replaced our old one with the barton all in one kit; 6:1 purchase - (38' boat) - and its good. Also look at wheel position & if e have too much turn on then drop the traveller down a bit. If the traveller is down all the time then we reef- unles SWMBO has her way sooner!!!!!!!!
 
I love these forums beacuse of the diverse opinions.
Traveller/Sheet: like all things in sailing its a bit of both.
Here's an extract from the Ullman Sails website...

The two most important guides for trimming the mainsail upwind are to keep the boom on the centerline of the boat and the top batten parallel to the to the boom. At this point, the leech telltale at the top batten should flow. If it doesn't, you should twist the sail off more by easing the sheet and pulling the traveler further to windward. More leech tension closes the leech, which allows the boat to point higher. But when you trim past the point of stall, where the top telltale stops flying, the boat will start to slow down. As the boat begins to be overpowered, the traveler should be eased down to reduce weather helm and keep the boat at less than 25 degrees of heel. As the traveler is eased, you will begin to develop backwind. This is not a problem. In puffy wind, the traveler should be played aggressively. Choppy water usually requires a little more twist in the leech than flat water so you should pull the traveler higher and ease the sheet.

SO: Lazy by not reefing early? No
Traveller only: No
Type of boat, experience of crew, sea conditions, wind gradient .... all play a part.

Racing Etchells, dinghies cruiser/racers and cats, I'd normally use the full extent of the traveller before relying on sheet and vang, but that's also because I've seen too many broken booms and bent masts due to excessive kicker tension and it not being eased enough when bearing away at the weather mark. Speak to your local laser fleet, broken booms are normal.
More important than sheet or traveller is the question, can you easily adjust the controls. If not, make the investment into good quality blocks and control lines that are conveniently to hand and then you'll get more out of your boat because you can trim more easily/quickly.
That also includes setting up your reefing system to pull in or drop out your reefs quickly and easily.
smaller diameter low stretch ropes (dyneema/spectra) good clutches and good quality blocks. Hose off the salt after use and you'll be grinning because the adjustments are easy.
Then you'll start to feel and see the differences.
 
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