Main sheet position

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libellule

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I have never actually seen another windy 525, so am making it up as I go along! The paintwork is near completion.....oh how proud I am! My attention is now moving to the rigging. I have a runner the whole width of the transom, fitted with a ring that moves freely from one side to the other, with no way of locking it in any one position. I have a U bolt at the rear of the centreboard casing. Opinions please, on which is the best position to attach the main sheet.
 
libellule said:
I have a runner the whole width of the transom, fitted with a ring that moves freely from one side to the other, with no way of locking it in any one position. I have a U bolt at the rear of the centreboard casing. Opinions please, on which is the best position to attach the main sheet.
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I'm making a lot of assumptions from your description. A picture or two would help.

By 'runner' I presume you mean track. It's common to have an athwartships track, known as a traveller, for the mainsheet. The mainsheet is normally attached to a car that runs on the track. You would have, typically, a 3:1 system on either side to move the car along the track or hold it in position as required.

By moving the car you can adjust the angle at which the mainsheet comes up to the boom and hence control the twist in the mainsail, which you need to do to get the best out of the mainsail in a racer or performance cruiser.

Hope that helps.
 
Or for an easy solution, just fix the slider in the centre by either a screw/bolt either side or lines from the slider to each end. These could even be slack so it moves a bit either side of the centreline.
 
libellule said:
I have never actually seen another windy 525, so am making it up as I go along! The paintwork is near completion.....oh how proud I am! My attention is now moving to the rigging. I have a runner the whole width of the transom, fitted with a ring that moves freely from one side to the other, with no way of locking it in any one position. I have a U bolt at the rear of the centreboard casing. Opinions please, on which is the best position to attach the main sheet.
Click to expand...

A track across the full width of the front of the cockpit with control lines on the traveller will give you the best sail shape control.

It is the most inconvenient position though, even dangerous for family sailing. It will need a more powerful mainsheet tackle than a sheet on the end of the boom will which means either some fancy system or loads more rope in the cockpit.

Adapting the track across the transom to include control lines puts it all out of everyones way and will give some control of sail shape.
 
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VicS said:
It is the most inconvenient position though, even dangerous for family sailing.
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Think that's overstatement. Travellers in the cockpit (athwart or in the companionway) are pretty normal on cruising yachts and as you say give the best control of sail shape. The danger comes from not sheeting in before putting the boat through the wind and that has nothing to do with the traveller or the sheeting position but the awareness of the helmsman. Reckon it's more likely the helm will forget to sheet in a mainsheet behind him across the stern and in my experience coachroof mounted travellers are never used so practically pointless and mains mounted in this way are often inadequetly sheeted as it is usually the crew who are expected to do it. Safest position for mainsheet and traveller on a family yacht IMHO is in the cockpit where the helm can sheet in easily and safely himself before beginning his manouvre and putting the boat through the wind.
 
libellule said:
I have never actually seen another windy 525, so am making it up as I go along! The paintwork is near completion.....oh how proud I am! My attention is now moving to the rigging. I have a runner the whole width of the transom, fitted with a ring that moves freely from one side to the other, with no way of locking it in any one position. I have a U bolt at the rear of the centreboard casing. Opinions please, on which is the best position to attach the main sheet.
Click to expand...

I think what you are describing is known as a sheet horse on the transom rather than a traveller. Would not normally have stops on it, but if it is a ring or shackle that the mainsheet runs on, then tension on the main sheet will hold it in position. Very common on dayboats such as yours and allows sheeting from the end of the boom which keeps it out of the way of the crew in the middle of the boat. The eye on the centreboard case is probably intend for an alternative mid boom sheet which allows a bit better control over sail shape but the sheet may well then be a big stretch for the helm to reach. Which you use may well depend on the fittings on your boom.
 
Transom without a doubt. You can arrange refinements at your leisure. Mainsheet tracks across the cockpit, or the bridgedeck, are dangerous abominations, as various people who've had arms and legs broken will testify.
 
There are compromises in all maimsheet systems. As said a track across the middle of the cockpit is handy to helmsman and crew and permits the sheeting point of the main sheet to be hauled up to wind ward so getting the boom near centre line and so much better when hard on the wind. When reaching you can have the sheeting point outboard so boom swung out but still have the sheet tight so holding the boom down and reducing sail twist. When running similarly the boom can be held down to minimise chinese gybe or inadvertent gybe. ( Chinese gybe is where top of the main sail gybes but the bottom does not)
The single attachment at the cb case will give better sheeting being permainently central.
The sheeting uncontrolled on the horse (a bar over the tiller) is perhaps the worst arrangement from the point of performance. If you can rig a pair of tackles to control the sheeting point on the horse you will get better performance for the above reasons. But not as well as mid cockpit track/ traveller. If you can not control it as is usuall you will not be able to bring the main in close to centre line when on the wind. But it will have benefits reaching and running. (depending how wide the horse is). The advantatges of the horse are that the sheet is well out the way, but then harder for adjustment especially for the crew.
The horse can be of rope or metal bar. A variation is a rope saddle or vee shape from attachments on each corner of the transom to a fixed point above the tiller. This sheets from the middle of the transom but does not foul the tiller.
Another variation is have the tackle at the boom end and horse but the control tail runs along the boom then down at a point midway along boom to the crew's hand or to another block on the cb case. This last block can be a ratchet type or have a cam cleat to lock it. The ratchet pulley has grip built into the sheeve. The sheeve can be set on a rachet to turn only in one direction. This means the sheet can be pulled in easily but can be held with less strain becuse the sheet grips on the sheeve which will not turn in the relase direction. Only a big ease of the tail of the sheet allows the sheet to slip on the sheeve. Expensive but recommended for dinghy. olewill
 
William_H said:
Another variation is have the tackle at the boom end and horse but the control tail runs along the boom then down at a point midway along boom to the crew's hand or to another block on the cb case. This last block can be a ratchet type or have a cam cleat to lock it. The ratchet pulley has grip built into the sheeve. The sheeve can be set on a rachet to turn only in one direction. This means the sheet can be pulled in easily but can be held with less strain becuse the sheet grips on the sheeve which will not turn in the relase direction. Only a big ease of the tail of the sheet allows the sheet to slip on the sheeve. Expensive but recommended for dinghy. olewill
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That's exactly what I have on my 1936 dayboat, a previous owner having converted from an aft. mainsheet arrangement. As the boat has no kicker the mod. gives an element of downward pull on the boom which is useful.
 
VicS said:
A track across the full width of the front of the cockpit with control lines on the traveller will give you the best sail shape control.
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On reflection maybe not a good choice for your boat, but we do not know much about the boat.

Some photographs would be useful.
 
Here's a picture of various mainsheet options. (If my scanning, editing and pasting works!). None of them show the mainsheet traveler in the cockpit or across the bridgedeck, but they are options, albeit inconvenient.
View attachment 43183

Pictures are from Dan Spurr's excellent book: Upgrading the cruising sailboat.
 
libellule said:
I have a runner the whole width of the transom, fitted with a ring that moves freely from one side to the other, with no way of locking it in any one position.
Click to expand...

I take it you mean you have a horse like this.

DSCF0468.jpg




the options I can see are to

a) fit a bracket in the centre to take the mainsheet block.
b) fit a control block and line at each end of the horse to limit the mainsheet slider ring movement
c) remove the horse and fit a system like this

34bcd24f.jpg


d) fit a proper mainsheet track to the horse

like this

8.jpg
 
Lakesailor said:
I take it you mean you have a horse like this.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Vic43/SWOA/DSCF0468.jpg

the options I can see are to

a) fit a bracket in the centre to take the mainsheet block.
b) fit a control block and line at each end of the horse to limit the mainsheet slider ring movement
c) remove the horse and fit a system like this

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Vic43/Forums/34bcd24f.jpg]
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Thats a nice picture of a neat well cared for small boat and some excellent diagrams
 
Lakesailor said:
Yes. I think a pedant must have prepared them ;)
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Good that there are people about prepared to photograph bits and pieces and make digrams to illustrate ideas on the forums!

I like this one ... from the same website as your option d

28.jpg
 
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Ah Right. There is nothing to stop you mounting a propermainsheet track on the transom. However as it's a dinghy I would just go with a simple bridle or even just a U bolt in the centre. I assumed that it was a horse to clear the tiller, but that seems to go through the transom.
Have a look at this forum thread http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7442&PID=1290286
 
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libellule said:
Thanks for all the input, certainly helpful and lots to consider.

I hope the attachment works, its a photo of the transom (before work started, I hasten to add)
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Cannot quite see what sort of track it is but you could fit a track (T section or X section) with a decent traveller with provision to attach control lines, and cheek/turning blocks and jammers for the control lines.

I suggest you have a trawl through catalogues/websites of dinghy fittings.


Or just take take the simple no frills option that LS suggests....... depends what you want in the way of ability to fine tune for max performance


How about some other pictures of the rest of the boat...
 
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