Main sheet position?

Twister_Ken said:
Contrarian as usual, I'm a bridge deck fan, mostly coz it's been like that on most boats I've sailed. As long as everybody knows it's there, it's no problem. It's conveniently positioned (at least, with a tiller it is), it offers good mechanical advantage without too much string, it allows a reasonable length of traveller rail and it's out of the way when parked (esp coz we take the sheet to the rail then).
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I agree. My quarter tonner has the traveller across the rear of the cabin top, about mid boom. Very awkward and difficult to get a purchase. Bridge deck seems ideal to me, much more natural to be pulling upwards. Pulling a rope at about shoulder height feels unnatural and its easy to lose balance.
 
I had a coach roof mounted traveler on my first boat and son came to hate it. The problem is the helmsman is to far away to ease it and you can easily find yourself out of control in a gust. Heaverier boats do not have such a problem bt modern light boats do.

My current boat has it right accross the coskpit just infron of the wheel and it is great for sailing but it custs down the cockpit and means we can't have a permentally mounter table folded up on the binicle.

Personally I love the single line "germain main sheet system" they use this system on X-yachts, I also love the Halberg Rassy behind the helmsman position. When you are helming an HR (Center cockpit) you really do feel in control.
 
Both my boat were ex-racers, the 395 had a bridgedeck main, the Impala a cockpit traveller.
On either you could play the main easily from the helm, on the 395, that meant sitting just in front of the wheel, on the side seat.
There is no reason for a coachroof main to be impossible to play, apart from poor design and cheapness of parts. After all, many high performance dinghies have the main in the middle of the boom.
If you are going to sail your boat properly two up, you need to be able to play the main while steering. End of story. Not Negotiable.
Because the second person will be below making coffee some of the time.

Alas many modern boats are esigned to be either sailed by lots of people in sailing school mode or motored. The worst I have seen is needing two people to work the jib in a tack, because the fixed table made it so slow to get from one jib winch to the other!
 
A reply to nobody in particular ...

The last boat had the mainsheet to a traveller across the bridge deck - this was great for single handing and even two up, but not so good when conditions dictated that the mainsheet went straight across the companionway entrance. It also meant that if anyone was going down below or coming up, they had to time it with the mainsheet - gybes mainly - especially if sailing by the lee! I did have an accidental gybe which pinned a crew member to the side before I gybed back again .. luckily he was sat down and man enough not to worry (25 knots, dead run, full sail)
The best bit (and the bit I miss) was being able to grab the line and pull or release with one arm ...

Now, with the current boat the mainsheet is on the coach roof and runs down to a winch under the sprayhood. What we like about this is that the mainsheet is not in the cockpit at all (except for the tail) and the helm can tack/gybe without worrying about the crew getting decapitated by the mainsheet (see above!).
What it does mean is that you have to start reading the water more and playing the boat to the gusts (unless you have a winch monkey) - which is no problem if you're used to racing anyway! So those of you having problems with coachroof mainsheets need to feel your boat more!

Given the choice of bridgedeck/coach roof mainsheet for cruising I'd choose coach roof every time. For racing it would have to be bridgedeck (or in the cockpit).
Aft mainsheets are generally in centre cockpits or small boats - you don't have much choice with a centre cockpit and small boats is more like dinghy sailing so aft sheeting is fine.
 
It's going to depend on the boat you buy in the first place within this size range.
On a slightly smaller boat with a tiller I really like the bridge deck mainsheet traveller.
I can stick the tiller between my legs, control the mainsheet and genoa sheets with a slight stretch and generally cope easily solo.
The major drawback with this setup is that people can get trapped between the mainsheet and the companionway, even though they know it's dodgy, some with very serious consequencies.
Although my wife has been sailing with me in our boat for a few years now, last month, with feet in cockpit, she stuck head and shoulders down between companionway and mainsheet, on the leeward side of the mainsheet. I quickly dragged her back to the cockpit and reminded her of the possible end result of her actions.
 
"The last boat had the mainsheet to a traveller across the bridge deck - this was great for single handing and even two up, but not so good when conditions dictated that the mainsheet went straight across the companionway entrance. It also meant that if anyone was going down below or coming up, they had to time it with the mainsheet - gybes mainly - especially if sailing by the lee! I did have an accidental gybe which pinned a crew member to the side before I gybed back again .. luckily he was sat down and man enough not to worry (25 knots, dead run, full sail)
The best bit (and the bit I miss) was being able to grab the line and pull or release with one arm ...

Now, with the current boat the mainsheet is on the coach roof and runs down to a winch under the sprayhood. What we like about this is that the mainsheet is not in the cockpit at all (except for the tail) and the helm can tack/gybe without worrying about the crew getting decapitated by the mainsheet (see above!).
What it does mean is that you have to start reading the water more and playing the boat to the gusts (unless you have a winch monkey) - which is no problem if you're used to racing anyway! So those of you having problems with coachroof mainsheets need to feel your boat more!"

Defending the bridge deck arrangement, I find your comments bizarre. If you need to feel the boat more, what the hell are you doing making accidental gybes? If the helm isn't skilled enough to prevent an accidental gybe, or conditions are dodgy, either don't go dead downwind, or rig a preventer before going square.

On a run with a bridge deck track, the traveller should be cleated off towards the leeward end of the track. The mainsheet thus will never bisect the companionway. When deliberately gybing, centre the traveller first (it does then obstruct the companionway, but it's easy to make sure no one is transiting it when gybing), sheet in as you approach the gybe, sheet out after gybing, and then let the traveller down to the leeward side and cleat it off.

On a beat, the sheet may bisect the companion, but again the traveller should be cleated off with no movement, and the sheet hard, so when tacking, there's no dangerous sheet movement across the companionway.
 
Defending the bridge deck arrangement, I find your comments bizarre. If you need to feel the boat more, what the hell are you doing making accidental gybes? If the helm isn't skilled enough to prevent an accidental gybe, or conditions are dodgy, either don't go dead downwind, or rig a preventer before going square.

On a run with a bridge deck track, the traveller should be cleated off towards the leeward end of the track. The mainsheet thus will never bisect the companionway. When deliberately gybing, centre the traveller first (it does then obstruct the companionway, but it's easy to make sure no one is transiting it when gybing), sheet in as you approach the gybe, sheet out after gybing, and then let the traveller down to the leeward side and cleat it off.

On a beat, the sheet may bisect the companion, but again the traveller should be cleated off with no movement, and the sheet hard, so when tacking, there's no dangerous sheet movement across the companionway.
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Ok - Accidental gybes - down wind with 25 knots across the deck, travelling at 7-8 knots and quite a bit of sea, oh - with full sail and polled out Genoa - there was a little sailing by the lee and a LOT of surfing, when you're doing this for several hours there will be lapses in concentration and windshifts - Perhaps I should've rigged a preventer or run a little more on the wind, but I didnt - and neither will a lot of people!

With the traveller locked off the mainsheet still swept the cockpit and pinned the crew - perhaps it was just the layout - because with the Gybe the mainsheet did bisect the companionway - oh - after being released the crew moved out of the way - just in case!

When hard on the wind there is less of an issue - it just comes down to access - I never had a problem (being agile) but others in the family found it quite awkward.

I don't have a problem with bridge deck mainsheets - just not right for us.
The other boats (dinghies) I race have center mainsheets and these are more akin to bridgedeck sheeting arrangements - but they work well for the situation the boats are used in (racing!!).
 
WALDER boombrake

Has some one experience withe the WALDER boombrake? I am sailing a Jeanneau 39i, with the the mainsheet arrangement before the compagnenway.
Also the boat has V spreaders, this means that it is not possible to bring the mainsail well out. This results in a higher exposure to a accidental gype.
A preventer is an extra tool to operate when gybing, not so practical for a short man/wife crew. For gybing, we have to repossition the traveler, than wind up the mainsail then gybe, release the mainsheet and repossition the traveler (and gybe the genua also of course). The WALDER claims that you do not need to wind in the mainsheet when gybing?
 
Ah!. So I rather gather a crew member was sitting in the companionway, when you were on a boisterous dead run with an un-prevented main. Not wise.

It was drummed into me as a youf - running square, preventer on. Spesh if you've gone to the trouble of poling out the boom. You've done the foredeck foxtrot anyway, might as well put on a preventer while you're up there.

Personally, I'm chicken now. Unless it's a narrow channel with the wind right up the jacksie, I prefer to broad reach/gybe/broad reach. Then if I do lose concentration, the collapsing foresail wakes me up well before a gybe.
 
No - he was sitting over by the side (Jenneau Sun Odyssey 30) but the forward end of the cockpit. Wind & waves had picked up from when we first rigged the genny pole - trip was back across the channel - down the back of the IoW headed for the Nab - so yes, perhaps we should've broad reached - but that would've meant un polling the genny ....
 
Although I'm a great advocate of the bridge deck system I know that things can fail and systems can break. No matter what point of sail you'r on try and consider all the things that could go wrong and try and prevent the worst happening.

Only last month I was taken unawares when losing my concentation momentarily, and nearly decapitated my daughter when we gybed accidentally in very light airs. This was not a situation where a preventor would normally be used, just a time when I should have been paying more attention and looking after my crew. Accidents can happen, it's just best others are informed of some of the pitfalls of certain systems.
 
[QUOTE Persons Rudi...A preventer is an extra tool to operate when gybing, not so practical for a short man/wife crew. QUOTE]

In my boat I can use a preventer on the boom with ease when I'm on my own.
I have a line always attached to the stern end of the boom and when not in use it is made off on a cleat on the boom, near the gooseneck.
When required to be attached I have the mainsheet pulled in tight with boom straight. I slip on the tiller pilot or the windvane. Then releasing the gooseneck end i run it through a block on the lee side forward of the mast at deck level, and back to a cleat at the side of the cockpit. Then I let out the mainsheet whilst tightening the preventer.
When I wish to release the preventer all I have to do is undo it from the cleat at the side of the cockpit and let it lay where it is until such time I can go and retrieve it and reposition on the cleat on the boom or reuse it as a preventer on that side. If I wish to use it on the other side, no problem all i do is the same process but run it through a block forward of the mast at deck level on t'other side.
It's so easy it is a must for me!
 
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alan_d said:
Mid-cockpit is probably the best position for sail-shape control...
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Really? How can the distance of the sheeting position aft of the gooseneck possibly determine control of sail shape? The sheeting position could have two effects on sail shapen (always assuming a rigid boom and a clew outhaul): (a) downward moment, and (b) ability to pull to leeward/ windward by adjusting traveller car position. Both will increase (for a given mainsheet purchase) as you take the sheeting point aft; but surely neither is optimum for a mid-cockpit position?
 
I recently had the pleasure of visiting cruising grounds on the eastern shores of Turkey.
The boat was a fairly 'long in the tooth' Jeaneau 37.
It had the mainsheet traveller forward of the companionway.
To my mind, this system has built in dangers and partially ruins the skippers ability to enjoy a safe sail in anything more than a F4.
Unless the crew was more than alert the possibility of broaching in a slight gust was enormous as the mainsheet could not be released quickly to reduce the mains turning/leaning effect. I'm no expert and relatively inexperienced and I've mainly sailed dinghys... my Twister, a Nic 38' and a J109.
This Jeaneau was decidedly dodgy in comparison and unless we were severely reefed I never felt comfortable unless lounging in a lagoon, sipping some wine or swimming in the blue waters........ aaaahh.. the memories :-)
 
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The boom will bend - only slightly, but it will bend ... hence the opinions on sail shape depending on sheeting postion ...

A lot of high performance racing boats have aft/center mainsheets now ... spread the load on the boom ...
 
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