main sail hoisting

[anderson]

after 2 heart attacks and a lot of weight loss I am finding it harder to hoist the main sail, the mast is 42ft we want to rig a block and tackle system ,what can you suggest a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 and do we put the tackle on the mast or on the deck I am 78 and wont give up sailing

 

[scottie]

We have an electric conversion on the winch which does it but would be more expensive than you suggestion and probably quicker 120 feet is a long haul!
Does your existing halyard come down to a turning block if so take it there

 

[Billjratt]

If you have a composite (wire and braid) halyard, how's about fitting a snatch-block to replace the splice? ( = 2:1 purchase)
With an extra tail fitted to secure to a cleat, the braid hank could be removed and stored elsewhere, as it will be twice the size.

 

[ditchcrawler]

The Battery powered WinchRite is what you need. It works really well. Several of my friends scoffed when I bought mine, but being of a certain age they are buying them now.

 

[bitbaltic]

Before you go down the route of overcoming friction by upping the power applied (whether through tackles or electric winches or whatever), ask yourself if you are starting from the lowest friction point possible or not. If you don't have a mainsail track- ie if you are huffing and puffing the main up via slides in a mast slot- fit a track, and have the main modified as necessary to take the cars.

We have a Teflon track by tides marine on a big-rig 30 footer and although not the biggest of boats the difference it made was amazing. With all rig handling the enemy is friction and the starting point is to tackle it at source, then work out what else you might need.

 

[Poignard]

"Cruising Under Sail", by Eric Hiscock, has some suggestions including tackles, winches and the system I have, ie sliding gooseneck and a downhaul tackle.

 

[Hadenough]

Don't know how much you want to spend but don't be too purist. Retofiting in mast furling with a continuous line furler to the cockpit will sort you out. With mine I can currently outhaul the main without a winch but am very conscious that I am not too far from needing to use it. Same for reefing, dousing whatever. We sail two up and wouldn't be without it.

 

[Norman_E]

I had my mainsail fitted with the Rutgerson Battcar System http://www.contender.co.uk/Portals/0/Template/My_Webdocs/Rutgerson Product Sheet Battcar System.pdf not just at the battens but also replacing the intermediate sliders. My main reason was to allow the main to drop easier, but I found also that I can now pull the main up by hand to a point above the second spreaders and only use the winch for the last bit.

 

[Mistroma]

Before you go down the route of overcoming friction by upping the power applied (whether through tackles or electric winches or whatever), ask yourself if you are starting from the lowest friction point possible or not. If you don't have a mainsail track- ie if you are huffing and puffing the main up via slides in a mast slot- fit a track, and have the main modified as necessary to take the cars.

We have a Teflon track by tides marine on a big-rig 30 footer and although not the biggest of boats the difference it made was amazing. With all rig handling the enemy is friction and the starting point is to tackle it at source, then work out what else you might need.

I still remember the time I tried Holts pro-lube for the first time. I had been getting used to pulling the main down as the slides were so sticky. I sprayed on some pro-lube as the sail was being hoisted and thought "that was a waste of time". The pro-lube simply dried almost as soo as it was applied and didn't look as if it had helped at all.

Then we finished sailing for the day and I let go on the halyard and reached up to pull down the main. Promptly got flattened and completely covered in mainsail as it crashed 3/4 of the way down to the deck.

So tackling friction sounds like a good starting point and then moving on to the other suggestions. I had also heard good things about the WinchRite but never met anyone who had actually tried one.

 

[neil_s]

My 8 ton Hilliard had a wire main halyard with a single block at the end. The halyard was only half the normal length so when the sail was down, the block was at the masthead. A rope was secured to an eye bolt in the deck, went up to the block and back down to your hand. You haul away and the sail goes up with 2:1 power. It worked fine. With the sail up, most of the halyard under tension was wire so not much stretching. Only problem was rather a lot of rope to tidy up on the deck. No winch needed on the 8 tonner! This arrangement did have a solid wooden mast, so if you have a metal mast, I guess you would have to fit a cheek block to the masthead for the halyard - because there wouldn't be room for the block to travel up and down inside the mast (or would there.....?)

Good luck! Neil

 

[PetiteFleur]

I had this problem on my previous boat - talked to the local sailmaker who advised fitting different BLACK plastic slides(no idea who made them) and connecting the slides to the sail with a loose webbing. Transformed both hoisting and dropping, sail was fully battened and dropped immediately.
On my present boat I discovered the sheave at the mast top was seized, unseized both sheaves when mast dropped and this made an enormous difference both for main & genoa. I now only have to winch the last couple of feet.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Fitting a block and tackle will not reduce the work, in fact it will increase the work required but at a lower force. Cannot the same be done with a winch that has a higher handle to drum turns ratio (or smaller drum)?

 

[Woodlouse]

2/1 is about all you can go on a bermudan mainsail. I agree with the comments that the system should be given a good look over to eliminate as much friction as possible but ultimately an electric winch will be the option that leads to the least exertion.

 

[westernman]

I have 6:1 for the main hoist, and 24:1 for the final tensioning on mine. It is 800 ft^2 and has a heavy gaff on it. The loads are very reasonable, but it is miles and miles of string.

 

[KAL]

I had my mainsail fitted with the Rutgerson Battcar System http://www.contender.co.uk/Portals/0/Template/My_Webdocs/Rutgerson Product Sheet Battcar System.pdf not just at the battens but also replacing the intermediate sliders. My main reason was to allow the main to drop easier, but I found also that I can now pull the main up by hand to a point above the second spreaders and only use the winch for the last bit.

Could you give an approximate idea of cost for the Battcar system per car?

 

[explores]

The Battery powered WinchRite is what you need. It works really well. Several of my friends scoffed when I bought mine, but being of a certain age they are buying them now.

Another one for WinchRite.

 

[charles_reed]

after 2 heart attacks and a lot of weight loss I am finding it harder to hoist the main sail, the mast is 42ft we want to rig a block and tackle system ,what can you suggest a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 and do we put the tackle on the mast or on the deck I am 78 and wont give up sailing

I can give you a year or two and agree that the mainsail lift is the most arduous single task in sailing.
I found a WinchRite the best answer (my 32m2 fully battened main) goes up reasonably well with that. The disadvantage of putting in a multi-part lift is that you just extend the time needed to lift the main - equally exhausting. In effect, instead of lifting the main for 11m you'll be doing it for 22m with a 2:1 purchase and for 33m with a 3:1.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

My previous boat, a UFO27 had a luff-rope on the mainsail, rather than sliders, and it required a considerable expenditure of energy to hoist, until someone recommended using a "dry" lubricant. I can't remember what brand it was, and it went with the boat to the new owner, but I think it contained Teflon. I sprayed it on the sail slot, as far up as I could reach, and a judicious amount on the upper part of the sail's luff. This cured the problem and didn't need to be repeated in the subsequent three years before the boat was sold.

 

[charles_reed]

I had this problem on my previous boat - talked to the local sailmaker who advised fitting different BLACK plastic slides(no idea who made them) and connecting the slides to the sail with a loose webbing. Transformed both hoisting and dropping, sail was fully battened and dropped immediately.
On my present boat I discovered the sheave at the mast top was seized, unseized both sheaves when mast dropped and this made an enormous difference both for main & genoa. I now only have to winch the last couple of feet.

Oilite slides by Bainbridge - using dry ptfe spray helps a lot, but with a cardiac condition you have to reduce the total effort required (as I know) and only motorisation will do that. The Rutgerson batten ends are more successful but require a specific mast groove - that answer can be very expensive.
With my WinchRite I've found that using the Harken 46STA winch it can only cope with low-speed (46:1). Using high speed just breaks the gearbox.
The alternative is to fit a powered winch - £3,300, which, if you have the room is the correct answer - I can't because of lack of space.

 

[GrahamD]

I applaud your reluctance to hang up your sea boots! I note that the Cruising Association Magazine is going to be focussing in the future on adaptations to keep people sailing longer.

To find a solution to your own problem it may be worth considering whether your difficulty is caused by you having reduced endurance, reduced strength or, dare I mention it, sub-optimal technique. Or is it a combination of all three?

I agree with other posters that minimising friction in the system is the essential first step. The lowest cost option is a few dabs of silicon gel on the sliders. Our own boat came fitted with ball bearing cars, but a a lot of friction from the other sliders. A little silicon grease transformed the struggle we were having with raising and lowering the main

Assuming all sources of friction in your system have been minimised, the next cheapest thing to look at is your technique. Eg One couple I talked to at Southampton Boat Show found that setting the autopilot during the hoist to hold the boat head to wind in forward gear on tickover stopped the sail filling and being pressed against the lazy jacks. This made the hoist easier and meant that the two of them could work together on hoisting the sail

When thinking about where you are having the greatest difficulty, it is useful,to think of the mainsail haul in three phases.
First phase - initial mainsail haul where the halyard line rate is initially quite high but slowing. The load on the halyard is initially low but increasing. It could be that over half of the mainsail is raised in this phase. Needs endurance.
Second phase - further increasing load on halyard, needing the use of a winch, much slower line rate. Mainsail raised to within 2-3 feet of the top. Needs endurance and, increasingly, strength.
Third phase - final 2-3 feet - trimming and tensioning of the luff- heavy load - low line speed- often needing quite a lot of strength.

Some sailors find as they get older that Phase 2 is reached very quickly, and they then have to use a slow halyard winch for a long time to inch the sail up the mast. This often means that they have much less puff and strength available for the third phase.

If your problem is largely poor endurance, then using a 2:1 halyard will make this worse. You might be better off with a winch which has a high speed first gear to get through phase 1 more quickly, so long as it has enough power to allow you to then cope with phase 3. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpxMwdbIzQ

If your problem is largely a lack of strength in phase 2/3 it could be that your halyard winch is just not powerful enough for the job. The best indicator of this is the ease with which you complete the hoist. It may be that the winch just needs a good service, or maybe it has become unsuitable as your own strength has reduced. Changing to a more powerful winch may be the solution here

A couple more ideas- a surprising number of people are still using winches without self tailing to raise their sails especially on the mast. Winching and tailing simultaneously can be a nightmare. Changing to self tailing can make a huge difference.

It may also be worth asking a couple of experienced sailors who have average strength to come and sail with you to find out how well your system works for them. Their observations and suggestions may also be very helpful in improving your technique and/or your system and will help you to resolve the question, is it me, or is it the boat?

There are a range of solutions ranging from no cost (technique) to very high cost (electric winches). I hope these thoughts are helpful in finding the solution(s) that suit you.