Main sail cost

I bought sails from Hyde 4 seasons ago.I have bought sails from them years ago when they were Musto and Hyde before they split.
Their guy came and measured my boat and also came and fitted the sails and talked me through some tuning aspects.
They made no secret of the fact that they moved their production facility to the Philippines some years ago and the information was available on their website.
When I asked some other sailmakers if their sails were made in this county they were evasive.I asked one sailmaker to confirm in writing what he had told me and he refused.
This is not a plug for Hyde but I am a satisfied customer and just wanted to correct some misinformation.
We are fortunate in East Anglia that Hyde have a sailmaker to do repairs etc.
 
doug748 said:
Distance buying is fine till you hit a problem. I am always willing to pay a fair premium for a local product, particularly with a thing like a sail.......well particularly with anything really.
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I had a genoa made by Crusader. There was a problem which was sorted to my 100% satisfaction. I genuinely don't believe that I could have received the same level of satisfaction from a company supplying foreign made sails. I started a thread about it:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287136&highlight=judging+a+company
Well worth thinking about in my opinion.
Allan
 
Allan said:
I had a genoa made by Crusader. There was a problem which was sorted to my 100% satisfaction. I genuinely don't believe that I could have received the same level of satisfaction from a company supplying foreign made sails. I started a thread about it:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287136&highlight=judging+a+company
Well worth thinking about in my opinion.
Allan
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Not knocking Crusader but when I bought my boat she came with her original jib and a 115% genny made by crusader. The genny is ten inches too short at the luff and simply won't roller reef if the clew is fastened down to the drum; it needs a strop to fly it. To be fair it was purchased at SIBS by a previous owner, and I have the spec sheet for it from Crusader. I guess the previous owner messed up the luff measurement for the boat and sent the wrong numbers in, but when I renew any sail I will only deal with a loft that a) insists on measuring the boat themselves and b) cuts their own sail. A loft that accepts the customers's numbers is fine but they are assuming that every cruising sailor can measure a sail perfectly, which is not something to base a top quality reputation on.
 
bitbaltic said:
Not knocking Crusader but when I bought my boat she came with her original jib and a 115% genny made by crusader. The genny is ten inches too short at the luff and simply won't roller reef if the clew is fastened down to the drum; it needs a strop to fly it. To be fair it was purchased at SIBS by a previous owner, and I have the spec sheet for it from Crusader. I guess the previous owner messed up the luff measurement for the boat and sent the wrong numbers in, but when I renew any sail I will only deal with a loft that a) insists on measuring the boat themselves and b) cuts their own sail. A loft that accepts the customers's numbers is fine but they are assuming that every cruising sailor can measure a sail perfectly, which is not something to base a top quality reputation on.
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Are you sure your genoa was made for your boat? Many people buy second hand sails which nearly fit.
I would be confident that my measurements would be correct. With my boat that is not an issue as Crusader measured it for the previous owner. The measurement of the boat had nothing to do with the problem that was sorted out so professionally.
Allan
 
bitbaltic said:
Not knocking Crusader but when I bought my boat she came with her original jib and a 115% genny made by crusader. The genny is ten inches too short at the luff and simply won't roller reef if the clew is fastened down to the drum; it needs a strop to fly it. To be fair it was purchased at SIBS by a previous owner, and I have the spec sheet for it from Crusader. I guess the previous owner messed up the luff measurement for the boat and sent the wrong numbers in, but when I renew any sail I will only deal with a loft that a) insists on measuring the boat themselves and b) cuts their own sail. A loft that accepts the customers's numbers is fine but they are assuming that every cruising sailor can measure a sail perfectly, which is not something to base a top quality reputation on.
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Sometimes it's just not possible for the sailmaker to measure the boat himself.I ordered my present sails from Kemp,measured the rig myself and they fit perfectly.It would have been too costly to fly the sailmaker to Portugal.
 
Interesting - my sailmaker had the spec for the sails for every boat for which he'd made a sail and many for which he hadn't. They were obtained from the boatyard or architect.
It's only when someone wants a non-standard sail that measuring is required.
I guess that those lofts (except one-man bands) who make their sails in the UK can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
 
main sail

Hi
just had a new main sail made for my 42ft yacht first thay said £2400,i then went back and said it was to much ten seconds later .er ok what abougt £1650 inc vat
some people just like to have a verry good x-mas
shame becouse thay are a good sail makers but as a returning customer it does make you feel that loyaty does not pay
 
Allan said:
Are you sure your genoa was made for your boat? Many people buy second hand sails which nearly fit.
I would be confident that my measurements would be correct. With my boat that is not an issue as Crusader measured it for the previous owner. The measurement of the boat had nothing to do with the problem that was sorted out so professionally.
Allan
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Oh yes, I have the original measurements as sent to crusader with the name of the owner and class of boat. It was certainly cut for her and it certainly doesn't fit. However, I've never measured the sail and compared the results to the numbers supplied to Crusader. There's no point as I didn't place the order and it was bought eight years ago. Although it is stored in the local loft for the winter so I could get it measured out of interest to see if Crusader cut what was ordered or not.
 
30boat said:
Sometimes it's just not possible for the sailmaker to measure the boat himself.I ordered my present sails from Kemp,measured the rig myself and they fit perfectly.It would have been too costly to fly the sailmaker to Portugal.
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Yes this is what I am getting at. The thing about my iffy genoa luff was only an aside. I'd presume that it's better to get the sailmaker to measure the boat himself even if he then outsources the manufacture. He's the professional after all so it removes the source of error that is a non-professional owner measuring up themselves.

I still find it hard to believe that local sailmakers don't exist in Portugal to offer this service. What do the local Portuguese sailors do? Do they all send their measurements to lofts in the UK? If so you'd at least think there is a business opportunity out there for a British sailmaker who fancies some sunshine.
 
bitbaltic said:
Yes this is what I am getting at. The thing about my iffy genoa luff was only an aside. I'd presume that it's better to get the sailmaker to measure the boat himself even if he then outsources the manufacture. He's the professional after all so it removes the source of error that is a non-professional owner measuring up themselves.

I still find it hard to believe that local sailmakers don't exist in Portugal to offer this service. What do the local Portuguese sailors do? Do they all send their measurements to lofts in the UK? If so you'd at least think there is a business opportunity out there for a British sailmaker who fancies some sunshine.
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There are a few local lofts that do decent sails.I opted for kemp because I like their work.
 
bitbaltic said:
Interesting

Just out of interest which of the bigger lofts do cut their sails in the uk, forumites must know?
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I use Kent based sail maker Wilkinson Sails.

They'll have a chat with you and talk about what's possible, the different materials available, finishes and how they can be used. If you want to measure yourself they'll work with you on what you need to do. The sails are designed and cut in the UK to your specification, nothing is offshored.

UK based operation with UK design and manufacture of the sails is very important to me when obtaining new sails.
 
Hello All.

First disclaimer, I am the owner/designer at the sail loft Solo Sails.

It is very interesting reading everyone's comments on where sails are made and who measures them etc.

I set up Solo Sails three years ago having worked as a full time professional delivery skipper and pro/sponsored offshore racing skipper. I was aware that there weren't all that many lofts that made bespoke sails in the UK any more (most struggled to compete with the cheaper overseas manufactured sails).

And so, I decided to set up a small loft in the UK that could concentrate on manufacturing a small number of bespoke sails made to order with relatively low overheads, so that we could produce genuine good quality sails at a reasonable price. I'm pleased to say that in our third year we have just taken on new staff and are getting some pretty exciting orders in.

Since we started we now have a state of the art CNC cutting machine and 100% of our sail design and manufacture is in-house at our family owned Cornish loft using the very latest and most accurate software, as well as the highest quality materials and equipment.

Our sails are probably not the cheapest in basic terms, but, (and a very important but), we only use the very best materials and hardware and believe in making a smaller number of genuine quality sails at a good price rather than lots of cheap ones that won't last as our business model. We do this by not advertising in glossy's, employing only a few staff, not having a stand at boat shows and not printing glossy brochures etc. This way, we make one or two sails at a time and that's it. We have a policy not to expand to more than 4 employees in order to maintain this level of quality and service.

Of course this does mean that we cannot get out and measure everyone's boats UK-wide, as this would simply be too expensive and time consuming, but we do offer every bit of support and advice to enable the customer to take their own measurements. This ultimately helps keep our overheads low and therefore product quality high (the way around we think it should be).

I hope it's ok to post this notice in this forum!

If anybody would like to try us for a quote or have any questions about materials we would be more than happy to help.

Best regards, Andrew Wood

http://www.solosails.com
 
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Hi Bruce,

It's kind of unfair for me to try and list them as I do not know how many cut their own sails in the UK, but do I know that Kemp Sails do (I used to work for them), I think Jeckles do, Westaway certainly build their own sails in the UK, there must be more, but I do not know for sure so sorry any sailmakers who do, and haven't been mentioned.

With the rising price of fuel/transport, higher wages in the far east etc, the cost of having sails made overseas is starting to become un-viable. This is a good thing for UK sailmakers and may start to see a resurgence of British manufactured sails. It hopefully will also start to weed out the 'Faux' sailmakers who pretend to that they make sails when actually they are just retailers of sails manufactured elsewhere.

Lets hope this general return to British made products continues, then we might see a better economy in the UK that employs more people and relies less on bankers to keep the economy going!

Regards, Andrew Wood

http://www.solosails.com
 
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I've mentioned this many times, if buying a sail get quotes and cloth samples from a number of sail makers. Get a magnifying glass and a bright light, put the light behind the cloth and use the magnifying glass to look at the ratio of glue to fibre. Glue is cheap fibre is expensive so the more fibre there is the better quality sail and the longer it will last. Decide what you want: leach line lead to the mast, triple stitching are examples. Then get quotes and since it's buyer's market play one off against the other. Out of interest if you also get a sample of Hood cloth you will see it has the highest fibre to glue ratio of any cloth, they also negotiate price.
 
bitbaltic said:
Interesting

Just out of interest which of the bigger lofts do cut their sails in the uk, forumites must know?
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I'll try and start a list of sailmakers who actually cut and make in UK. I'm open to corrections as I know outsourcing is common and business plans change.

Pete Sanders
Crusader
Wilkinson
Solo

I'm not too sure that I would class the latter two as 'bigger lofts'?

In reply to the OP I would emphasise that there really is no easy answer as it depends on so many factors. Quality of sailcloth and specification make a BIG difference to the price. Cheap is definitely not always best.

We are having a high quality fully battened mainsail cut for our 39 footer and it comes out at about £2500 plus another £1k for the new track for the mast.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I'll try and start a list of sailmakers who actually cut and make in UK. I'm open to corrections as I know outsourcing is common and business plans change.
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This is true, it is difficult to say any loft produces sails 100% manufactured in the UK, as many things like sail cloth, hardware etc etc are not manufactured in the UK for example.

Also, many small lofts (such as ourselves when we started out) cannot afford or have the room for a cutting machine, so will outsource the cutting to another company (we cut sails for quite a few other sail lofts in the UK), yet they still design and build the sails themselves in the UK.

Where do you draw the line at what is or isn't manufactured in the UK!?

Cheers, Andrew
 
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