MAIB Report

[Sailfree]

Re: Point of order

I think many of us are guilty of too much reliance on technology.

I have always fitted a Raymarine combined radar/chartplotter.

On our first X channel about 9 years ago we were approaching the needles in the dark and the wind had got up to about 30kts and we were having a roller coaster ride when I suddenly spotted a light beside us. I checked the radar and realised that when I actually looked for it I could see possibly a small boat but otherwise this some 40' yacht was lost in the clutter.

Since then I always assume we may not be "radar visible" to others.

My second big lesson was relying on the charplotter. I have in the past relied on it -including going round the SW inshore side of Jersey. At times it felt that we could reach out and touch the rocks either side of us but I was confident as we had the chartplotter. 2 years ago I went up the river to Pontrieux and while I could see the buoys and the deeper part of the river the Navionics Platenium card had us firmly going along inland by about 300m in the solid granite cliffs. I dread to think back to the times I relied mostly on that chartplotter. I checked all the setting but concluded that the card has the river wrongly plotted to one side.

I now rely on good examination of the charts and passage plan with waypoints already feed into my handheld GPS for any couse change position before any tricky passages and Mk 1 eyeball during the passage.

Radar and chartplotters can be a help but they can also give you a false sense of security.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: Point of order

I'm strongly in favour of getting the job done cheaply. But it is a complete waste of money if £20 is spent, and the job NOT be done. It's worse than that, for there is the self-rationalizing "Oh, it will do. Everyone else seems to do it like that, so it must be also right. Sort of....."

It is my considered - and fairly experienced - view that I cannot rely on the visual watchkeeping of merchant and fishing crews to keep me safe. Nor can I expect their radar watchkeeping always to be of the highest standards of skill - day and night, in all weathers - either.

I hold the view that the octahedral reflector, as fitted on most sailboats, is close to useless and contributes significantly to an unjustified complacency. That is simply asking for trouble.

I'm not risk-averse - but I am into risk management. And for me, that now means a great big, efficient all-aspect reflector - or an active radar transponder.

Both are available today.

Anything less is gambling with the lives of the people I take along with me, without them being aware of that gamble. *You* might be prepared to go along with that - but have you asked *your* companions about their consent?

.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Point of order

>>>
I'm strongly in favour of getting the job done cheaply. But it is a complete waste of money if £20 is spent, and the job NOT be done. It's worse than that, for there is the self-rationalizing "Oh, it will do. Everyone else seems to do it like that, so it must be also right. Sort of....."
>>>
This all looks very wise to me. I look forward to Qinetiq's test results. The problem seems to be that "big" reflectors suffer from being big and powered ones require power. I have a bog standard octahedron because
a: it was cheap and at the time wisdom suggested it was a whole lot better than nothing
b: it is easily fitted/hoisted

I suspect those reasons fit many other people's practice as well. Being a mobo I'd be happy to fit an active reflector, but for the cost, its cash I haven't got so the argument over how much a life is worth falls down a bit. Complacency does seem to be a possible problem though, every time I've had the octahedron up and asked if it could be seen the reply has been affirmative, ranging from other small boat's radar to being in thick fog off Folkestone. In the latter I gave our position to Dover CG who very kindly tracked us through, past Dover and inside the Goodwins when the fog burned off. Discovering that was apparently more good fortune that the inherent effectiveness of the reflector has been eye opening.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: Point of order

Andrew,

I have *no* issue with someone who decides - with the benefit of sound and sufficient information - that he's not going to buy a liferaft, or not purchase and fit crotch straps, or not replace the out-of-date flares, or......

That's personal choice and personal responsibility, and that's fine by me.

What I believe many will be concerned about is having a mistaken belief that an octahedral reflector does what they assume it does. Decisions based on *wrong* info are almost guaranteed to be bad ones, with the clear prospect of bad consequences.

I also believe that most peeps want to know the reality. What they then do with that 'reality' is a matter for them - but I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that many boat owners chose to operate with kit which is, frankly, 'mickey mouse without the ears' - while their guests on board are trusting them to make sound decisions which affect their chances of survival should a problem occur.

IMHO, there's a much bigger issue there, so let us use this forum to uncover the reality of the 'reflector and lookout' problem.

Oh, and I imagine that the large metal bits within your Fjord 27 make a very much better radar-reflective target than your octahedral thingy - which is, IMHO, just weight and windage.....


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