Magazine Radio/Electronic tests..waste of time??

steverow

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After reading yet another Handheld Radio test in one of the mags...I have come to the conclusion that these tests just aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

They seem to be tested by a group of people who just "try them out" and assess whether they sound and look good. This might make good magazine copy but it's hardly objective is it??
To properly test any radio equipment it should be done in lab conditions.
RF power measurements should be taken into a 50 Ohm dummy load, and the levels noted.
Receiver sensitivity tests should be made using a calibrated signal generator and results given using the SINAD technique ...any FM radio not achieving better than 0.5 microvolts for 10dB quieting isnt worth having...as the most powerful transmitter in the world wont make up for a poor receiver
There is never any mention in these tests of RX sensitivity, or Deviation (modulation level) or Spurious emission performance or any of the other half a dozen or so technical tests that go to make up a complete radio test.

The answer of course is that your average bod doesn't understand the technical specs..and this is true, but then an assessment should be made by a qualified radio engineer on which is the best performing radio from the tests results.
An explanation could be made of the different test results allowing peple to choose.

I actually feel that these tests may be doing some of the manufacturers /importers a disservice.


In the recent past there have been supposedly objective tests of Radar and Radar reflectors...but any radio engineer knows that to do this objectively and thoroughly it needs to be done on a proper antenna range with comparative field polar digrams. It shouldnt be done at sea because the conditions are never exactly repeatable for each test.

So come on editors..either get the job done properly and publish proper and complete technical results of your tests, or just show us the pictures and prices and say you pays your money and takes your choice etc.
The problem is that the articles often look as if they are authoratitive and informed tests..which in many cases they clearly are not, and therefore are quite misleading.
I assume that cost is the issue that prevents proper objective technical tests from being carried out.

Rant Over.

Steve.
 
Your kidding - right ?
Didn`t understand any of that - I want to but one not build one.

I hope you never replace Jeremy Clarkeson
 
Er..No I'm not kidding.
Either the tests should be done properly or not at all, not simply it feels good and sounds good approach.
You might as well just say the radio works OK and leave it at that.
After all you wouldnt buy a car without knowing the engine BHP, top speed, fuel consumption in all cycles would you...as a minimum spec.
These results are achieved from objective lab/test track testing.
OK theres a considerable price difference I know...but the principle is still the same.
And as far as comparitive tests are concerned..ie pitting one radio against another, how can that be fair without the full extent of technical tests to go on??

Steve.
 
I hear what you are saying Steve but a technical comparison would probably mean very little to the standard user.

As a consumer I want to know the features and benefits on one over another, ease of use, basic performance, reliability etc. So my point of reference would be the Consumer Test "best buy" not a technical spec sheet where I don't know the significance of one number compared to another.
 
er... no.
what i dont want is not to be able to use the buttons... or reach the talk button... or find its so full of interference i cant hear anything. That is, how it is on a boat. I couldnt case less how it is in a lab.
 
I hear where you're coming from (and believe me that an awful lot more goes into tests like this than ever gets printed on the page) but surely what matters is how they perform in the field.
Using your car analogy, whether the engine has 150bhp or 160bhp is irrelevant in every day use. What matters is how fast it goes, how much fuel it uses, how refined it is, how easy/safe/enjoyable it is to drive etc.
That said, there does seem to be a feeling that some of our technical content could do with beefing up. I am listening and plan to start making changes in the New Year.
As a rule do you think product tests are an important part of MBY or would you rather ditch them for something else entirely?
 
Yes to an extent I agree, but surely proper test data should be available for someone qualified and independent to make an informed judgement for each equipment being tested. I know they are not radio mags, but surely explanations of tests results could be given, and simple sliding scales published as to what constitutes a good or bad reading.
My particular axe is that they never publish either receiver sensitivity or selectivity.
Your radio may be 25 watts...but virtually useless at any range if your receiver spec is poor.
We just assume that it will be OK, but it's the magazines job if they are doing tests, to find out on our behalf, and it aint happening.
Unfortunately without proper (but relatively simple) instrumentation it is nigh on impossible to determine receiver performance.
For about 10 grand they could set up a rudimentary Radio test Lab.
Given the amount of radio tests they carry out accross all of their titles it would surely be worth it and a lot cheaper over time than farming it out to commercial labs.
After all radio and it's associated equipment, constitutes a very large part of the modern boating hobby.

Steve.
 
Hi Hugo,

Yes I think all tests are worth doing provided they are substantive and well informed both technically and from a users point of view.
I think that this is increasingly important with radio equipment, given the cheapness and chinese manufacture prevalent in this day and age.
After all we trust our lives to this equipment. It is first line safety gear It may perform all right in the marina or close to the coastline but is the Receiver good enough for you to hear Milford Haven CG for example when in the middle of the Irish sea? Some might not need that capability, but others might.
Only technical testing can tell you this.
I appreciate that a lot of effort goes into setting up the tests, but are the people you use really qualified to make judgements of one radio over another apart from ergonomic or aesthetic issues?
As I said earlier in another reply you could probably set up your own radio test Lab for simple tests quite cheaply for use accross the group, given the amount of radio tests that you do across the mags, probably about 2 a year per mag..one fixed and one h/h...that might start to pay off within a couple of years.
I'm sure you already have the expertise within the contributors already (thinking of Colin Jones etc) to operate the lab and do the technical tests.

As a minimum I need to know that the radio I buy will:

Have sufficient output power to do the job (RF power test)
Will not wander off frequency when RX'ing or TXing (Frequency Stability Test)
Will have a receiver sensitive enough to receive at distance (RF Sensitivity Test)
Will not get swamped by strong signals on an adjacent channel(RF selectivity Test)
Will have good audio quality on TX and RX (deviation and distortion tests)
Will have a clean TX output which will not cause interference, either harmonic or splatter to other users or services. (spurious emmissions test)
Additionally with H/H equipment a battery longevity test under a controlled regular TX/RX duty cycle.
These of course are in addition to tests of practicality and useability that you already carry out.


Steve.
 
My old work station, no change from £10K ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

car.jpg
 
Sorry, I dont understand why proper investigations of equipment should not be carried out.
Whether they do it, or somebody else does it is irrelevant, but it should be done.
There's a lot of badged engineered cheap stuff coming in to the country now, and mariners are trusting their lives to this gear, expecting it to perform well in an emergency situation out at sea.
How do you really know how good it is??
Do you think the importers do the tests..of course not, they dont have the facilities, anyway they are probably too busy counting the number of deck shoes they've sold this year.
So we are probably using equipment that reaches the UK market without ever undergoing proper evaluation a saftey tests apart from what the manufacturers say, and from 30 years experience around radio...they will say anything..and when it doesnt perform to spec just blame it on production/component variations.


Steve.
 
Aha a proper chamber..... excellent. What was your speciality??

I was thinking of something bench based using calibrated second user gear...

Bird Thru Line 50W RF meter or similar
Dummy load
Deviation Meter
Digital RF Sig Gen 2nd user marconi or farnell or similar,
Freq counter,
Function Generator
2nd user Spectrum Analyser
Distortion Meter,
And a few other bits and bobs such as RF couplers RF voltage meter, decent AVO or similar...etc.
Find a small room, a reasonable engineer or two and bobs your uncle, you can at least do simple technical evaluations on VHF tranceivers.
After all we are only going up to 170Mhz tops apart from the speccy analyzer which will have to go to a gig to properly evaluate harmonics.


Steve.
 
I dont think in this day & age of synthesized & highly evolved design that any VHF radio would be that far out of spec to cause a noticeable problem or degradation of performance.

In the current sales market such products can't exist on any budget.

My own RF test gear very rarely gets used these days as i don't have to setup multi receive / transmit channels mod levels etc on those good old Seavoices ;-)


To me I want to know how a radio functions at sea ie how user friendly, mic & speaker clarity, what functions etc



Just my thoughts


Sean
 
flat panel array's as used on military radar, it was the low point of my career! The best day for me was the day I was assigned a trainee to take over!

Lab type work used to crush my moral! It suits some, just not me.

Used to test, tune and bore-sight (it was important they looked in the right direction for the missiles apparently!)

Sounds impressive until people realised part of my toolkit was a ball hammer and dot punch! I hate waveguide, I hate waveguide, I hate blub blub

The pain of my life was gain and side-lobes and the reduction of, a bit<span style="color:black">ch</span> of an antenna could take me up to 60 hours, mostly educated guess work, with lots of going back to the start. 4 quadrant antennas, about 12 tuning slugs per quadrant, it was just a big christmas cracker puzzle, pull that one out a bit, push that one in a bit, see what happens. The heartbreaking part, it would take say 30 seconds to adjust and an hour of retest to find out I had not adjusted right.

Occasionally I had some interesting jobs, one off antenna's which needed jury rigging and software written. Or one time we had a tornado nose cone slung up in front of the main rig to see if it had any effect. Absolutely brilliant room for listening to music though!

I do not miss it, can you tell /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Must agree on his one.The tech spec garden path was well trodden in the 1960s thru to 1970s Hi-fi world.If a test bench machine ses the stuff is OK then the thing must be wonderful.
All I really want to know is if the bench tested 50mm .5 watt 8 wotsit highly specced mylar super duper speaker will triumph in the battle over the racket created by my boat and if my overlarge gloved finger can change to CH16 and back again in a panic without going via the marina channel and 07 on the way.Doubt that 99% would be able to tell if the thing was 1k off frequency and even fewer that the set was mebbe only giving out 2 watts
 
I have to say I agree with Steve on this, I would want to know a radio has had its specification verified. It need be no more technical than that, then they can get on with how pretty it is and how big the buttons are etc.

I would have thought they ccould just just go to an existing lab and commission them to do some basic tests. Shouldnt need the £10k lab then, probably about £500 per radio I would have thought.

Or they should make it clear they are only testing the functionality and features.


D
 
Yes- a part of the test should be to chack out it performs to spec, then they can discusss the button sizes, screen etc etc.

Many such test are so incomplete in scope as well. I often find the one I am interested in is missing - so if they are going to do them they should do them well.
 
I have got to agree with steverow on this one. Yes I am a radio armature ham so the technical specification would mean something to me, but had I known that the radio that I have brought only produces 18 watts and not the 25 watts it should do I would not have brought it.

“I don’t think in this day & age of synthesized & highly evolved design that any VHF radio would be that far out of spec to cause a noticeable problem or degradation of performance”

Some radios are that far out of spec that they do not work well enough for the purpose that they are intended. A report should state that a radio dose or doses not meet its manufactures spec and if that spec is good or bad.
 
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