Luff Talk

[Pandoramark1]

Evening All,

Today has been a good day, I have finally understood (or think I have) a great deal about sails, so I am really looking for a sanity check on a few things, so if you would be kind enough to oblige here are my questions.

Luff Tape XXmm - This is where the luff of the sail has the tape stitched along the edge that can then either have wire or rope slid up through the loop, the size of the rope or wire is indicated by the xxmm of the tape. This is an addition to a sail that previously had hanks or something on that have been taken off or needs to be changed to fit a different mast?

Luff Wire - This is where the wire is sewn into the Luff of the sail (Quite stiff)?

Luff Rope XXmm - Similar to Luff wire but use of rope size is as described in XXmm (not so stiff).

All of these slide up through the mastgate, so the important factors are that the Luff rope/wire/tape is not to big to slide up through the mastgate, but small enough to slip up the mast grove (runner I think) to the mast head.

Please let me know if I have made two steps forward or back.

As always thanks for all your help.
PMK1

 

[Billjratt]

Are you talking about a dinghy mainsail which has been modified?
what do you actually want to know?

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Luff tape is a 3" say strip of polyester tape used as a binding on the edges of a sail .
.The xxm is actually the diameter of the bolt rope or cord used inside the tape,which holds it in the mast or boom groove .
.Luff bolt rope xxmm describes the size of rope as above .Diameter again.
.Luff wires are used inside the luff tape for free flying sails that can often double as the forestay,storm jibs or sail set on a bowsprit.
Cindy

 

[Seajet]

Bit of confusion here, but you're definitely 2 steps forward.

The luff tape when mentioned by sailors rather than sailmakers is usually referring to the fabric strip on a foresail which engages in a luff foil, on racing boats - similar to the foil a reefing jib is on, but better aerofoil shape.

Foresails for roller reefing foils usually have a bolt rope at the luff, to engage in the roller reefing foils' groove / track.

Bolt ropes are stitched to the luff ( and foot ) of a sail, part of the construction but I can see your analogy of the rope being slid into a pocket along the edge of the sail.

Boats without a roller jib set-up usually have a wire luff, and hanks ( clips ) which attach directly to the forestay; such a sail will probably have a bolt rope, but it's part of the construction of the sail, doesn't engage in anything.

Hanked foresails tend to set better than roller reefing ones, there is the drawback you have to physically change to different larger or smaller headsails as the wind decreases or increases, but this is a doddle on a 22' boat, and the better performance to windward is always helpful, may get you off a lee shore in a strong wind, when partly rolled up sails often set badly.

On the other hand a rolled up foresail can be quickly unrolled and set if, say, the engine fails while motoring.

The mast gate is for the luff of the mainsail, to engage the luff of the main in the groove ( track ) in the trailing edge of the mast.

The sail can be attached to this track by plastic slides, or by a bolt rope.

Avoid use of the word 'runner' for the track, that's something entirely different, not a track, and irrelevant to your boat.

If there is an actual gate at the bottom of the mainsail luff track, it's to prevent slides from dropping out as you lower the main.

This does not mean you have to use slides, you could use a mainsail with a bolt rope as long as it fits the track ( actually slides are a lot more critical, they have to be exactly the right size ).

I've never heard of a wire luffed mainsail ( no doubt someone here has ) - it's not necessary as the mast supports the sail along its' whole luff, and would be a serious pain for reefing etc !

On a Pandora either slides or bolt rope for the mainsail luff would be fine, if keen on racing check there aren't any class rules specifying one or the other but it's not very likely.

 

[Pandoramark1]

The Next Level

Ok so, thanks for the help so far but I am ready to go to the next level….

Taking this a bit further, I seem to be able to find an abundance of sails with Luff rope (that I know now is bolt rope “Thanks Seajet”) but not many with hanks / Sliders.

After the drive home tonight I have come up with the following. If I find a nice second hand sail that has a 6mm luff rope, but I wanted to convert it to have Foot Sliders. Is it simply the case of punching a series of holes in the sail at the desired intervals and adding brass eyelets to protect the sail from tearing etc.

The holes would not be though the rope but slightly back from it, so that I could if needs be revert it back to a bolt rope. Then using hanks or loop hanks (what ever would give enough clearance to fit through the holes in the mainsail and the foot sliders) thus allowing me to connect the sail to the mast. Accepting that this method might increase my foot dimension.

I know it is not pretty but is this something that can be / should be done?.

Or have I not explained what I am trying to do properly.

Kind Regards
PMK1

 

[Seajet]

Right.

I have not explained very well, apologies.

Hanks are to clip the luff of a foresail onto the wire forestay.

Mainsails are connected to the aft edge of the mast, into the track, either by a boltrope or slides.

90 % of mainsails are attached by their foot to the boom, which has a groove / track in the upper surface, by a boltrope which feeds into the track on the boom.

With mainsail feet, usually the aft lower corner ( main Clew ) is held out to the boom end by either a simple lashing or a small adjustable purchase.

The lower forward corner ( Tack ) often consists of a reinforced eyelet which engages on a hook on the forward - mast - end of the boom, a ‘staghorn’.
Sometimes the Main Tack is held by a split pin going through lugs on the boom, holding the eyelet; as long as it's secured, any adjustment is at the outer, Clew end.

Do not punch any holes or insert any eyelets,

A, you won’t need to, the sail will be ready to use ( just a case of ensuring it’s compatible with your boat, particularly mast & boom, it very probably will be )

B, If any eyelets are to be fitted they have to be in reinforced patches on the sail; this will be a mainsail we’re talking about, rows of eyelets in foresails ( reef rows ) are pretty rare nowadays.

Hanks only come into the picture when talking about foresails; to cope with varying wind strengths, the usual minimum / average is to carry 3 different sized foresails.

The standard, general purpose is the ‘Working Jib’.

For lighter winds, the ‘Genoa’, also known as ‘No.1 Genoa’, denoting the largest foresail normally used; racing boats can have a lot of intermediate sails but that’s not important here.

For strong winds, it’s a smaller foresail, the ‘Storm Jib’.

As a guide, my 22’ boat – similar size to a Pandora but slightly different set-up, my boat’s forestay attaches to the mast 7/8ths of the way to the top, making her a ‘ 7/8ths rig’, or ‘fractional rig’.

The Pandora’s forestay attaches at the mast top, making her a ‘masthead rig’.

The difference is your foresails will be slightly bigger, and your mainsail slightly smaller, in proportion.

So on my boat, the working jib is 97 square feet, the No.1 Genoa is 135 square feet, and the Storm jib is 45 square feet.

All the foresails are attached at the luff by hanks to the forestay.

The sails are pulled up by halliards attached to the Head of the sail, usually with shackles ( these shackles should be the ‘captive pin’ type, so that one can’t drop the bits and lose them ! ).

The lower front corner of the foresails, the Tack, is attached at the bottom of the forestay right in the bows usually with a shackle and / or wire strop, simply as a fixing to stop the whole sail going straight to the masthead when the halliard is pulled, instead allowing the sails’ luff to be tensioned.

The lower aft corner of the foresail, the Clew ( jib clew ) is attached to the sheets, run down each side of the boat outside the rigging, to the cockpit.

The foresail ( jib ) sheets attach by a shackle of some kind or simply tying knots onto the Clew eyelet.

When changing to a different size foresail, the halliard is let slack, the sail pulled down to the foredeck, and the Tack & hanks undone.

The halliard is removed and clipped to the pulpitrail or a handy lifeline, to stop it blowing out of reach.

The sheets are disconnected / untied, then the sail can be bundled up and stowed below, then the replacement sail attached & lastly, hoisted. With a little practice this can be done pretty quickly, and is in fact usually good fun !

The mainsail of course is covered with just one sail ( there are specialist jobs like Trysails for storms, but you will be fine with just the normal main, like 99% of us ).

To adjust the mainsail area for strong winds of course, reefs are taken in but we’ll leave that for now.

Hope that’s a little clearer ?

A few photo’s of your Pandora, particularly the mast & boom tracks & the forward end of the boom at the ‘Gooseneck’ pivot attachment would enable more detailed pointers, and should show what sort of reefing arrangement she has.