LPG

MedDreamer

MedDreamer

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Can somebody give me an idea about the cost of coversion to LPG.

This is not for current boat, I don't think we have LPG on Windermere anyway, but if I wished to move up in size and diesel was out of my price range it may be an option.

Where does the tank go? and how does consumption compare with petrol and diesel.

Just curious really

<hr width=100% size=1>Martyn
 
Martyn,

'StuartW' who posts on this forum was the previous owner of my boat, and fitted, and then removed an LPG installation from it.

There are a few posts in the archives about it, and maybe a PM to him could be useful.

I think he found that with the two BMW's being only 4cyl 120 hp, there was too much of a drop in performance, and concluded that you need to be into the V6/V8 league to justify the conversion.

IMHO it works out well to buy a twin petrol boat that no one else wants, but spend the money you save on diesel replacements, not LPG.

LPG is also under the same threat as red diesel when it comes to price equalisation.

Since availabilty of marine LPG is so limited, selling on an LPG converted boat would restrict your market.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Real boaters do it on the Humber </font color=blue>
 
I have been running my Sprint on LPG for the last 3 years. Engine was a V8 225 VP. The cost of conversion was £3,200 (3 years ago) for a single engine, look at about £6k for a twin. I averaged 1.5nm per gallon of LPG vs around 2nm on petrol. I've used over 5,000 litres in that time. The tanks are normally placed in the engine bay along the side but tanks can be put just about anywhere - some have them under the floor others have bow tanks.
Cost of LPG varies from around 32p a litre to around 39p down here in the Solent.
I've now decided to switch to diesel. Would I do it on another petrol boat - probably not and certainly not on an older engine. In terms of consumption the gas worked out at about 12%-15% less range than petrol. I have a spread sheet of my LPG useage over the period, if you'd like to see it, PM me your private email and I'll send it as a Excel file. I have to say that you can buy a lot of petrol before you pay off the cost of conversion so it depends how long you plan on keeping the boat you convert. Don't beleive the figure put out that you will pay the conversion off in 120 hours - you won't!

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DIESEL MYTH?

Martyn

I have seen a nice boat at a good price, not giving too much away in case broker is looking in, but it is petrol. I don't worry too much about the safety arguement as we have petrol now, respect the rules and tread very carefully (I put the blower on for five minutes at the start of every visit to the boat whether we are going out or not!) but several things strike me as relevant here:

1) Currently on Windermere but as you know not planning to stay there. However because you soon run out of water on the lake we do not have that many engine hours . My expenditure on fuel from April to now is £350 and I still have half a tank left. This is probably £200 more than I would have spent on diesel (relatively expensive up here)

Given the price premium on diesel vessels £200 is probably the equivelent of one months interest on the extra mortgage. ergo Nobrainer - petrol makes sense on Windermere.

2) For better or worse we are part of the socially minded EU and I do not see any way in which wealthy leisure boat owners will keep their red diesel after 2007.
Any financial advantage for diesel will be substantially wiped out (together I would guess with a major downward adjustment in the value of secondhand diesel boats).
I know the diesel purists would say "ah but diesel is more efficient" but with higher servicing / maintenance costs I am going to have to use a hell of a lot of fuel to justify the extra up front cost. At the moment common wisdom says that diesel only becomes cost effective when you run over 100 hours a year, what will this be when the price differential goes? 300 hours? I can't see how I can run that many hours much as I would like to.

3) As you know MedDreamer is my mission statement and over in Spain petrol and diesel are similarly priced and equally available so the arguement in point 2 above already applied there.

4) I know that larger boats (40ft plus) need the torque of diesel but I am not in that league.

5) Diesel lovers would argue that a diesel would hold its value better, as argued above this may not prove to be true even in the relatively short term but even if it is, is it a valid arguement. In reality the boat wil cost me the difference between what I pay for it and what I sell it for. If I pay less up front I don't mind selling it for less. If I buy a diesel I would guess that the differential between buy and sell price would be similar to petrol. I will however have had to fund a higher purchase price.

As things stand at the moment, and are likely to be in the future, diesel does not seem to make financial sense to me personally. If, like you, I was more or less forced to change engines then I too would probably buy diesel at the moment but
when looking at the premium on purchasing a diesel over petrol boat I cannot see financial justification for it

In fact why does anyone buy diesel? - Light blue touch paper and stand well back



<hr width=100% size=1>Martyn
 
Whether to consider it or not really depends on the boat and what you intend to do with it. Our 36 foot Hunton with twin 454 magnums is really a boat that loves the extra power/weight of the petrol/LPG and since we're on the South Coast availability is fine. Since March we've already done about 130 hours and with the amount of petrol these machines can guzzle LPG is really the only way forward. I had a boat converted by MGS previously to the Hunton and that worked well, however this one was done by Marine Solutions - its much better. However if you want to cruise for > 200 miles between fills or go extensively around France then diesel will clearly be the choice. In the case of the Hunton where the tanks go under the floor and have to be able to stand motorway speeds the conversion was very expensive and we did consider diesel very seriously but emotions got the better of us and we never felt they'd build a diesel Ferrari...... Huntons do build diesel boats (see current MBY) but if you want a really fast one then its lots of money. I also came across probably the largest marine LPG user the other day (another Hunton owner), he has just re-engined his boat after enormous hours on the previous engines, gone for LPG again. If you are around the Solent and its convenient to come for a run then please PM me.

cheers,

Matt

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Re: DIESEL MYTH?

Well said Martyn.

My current diesel 'euphoria' is obvious, but as you say, the time was right for repower and what would have been the point of fitting a new petrol for a grand less?

I still think it's all about ... Location, Location, Location.

If I was sea based and the marina sold petrol, I'd be very happy with petrol up to the 30 ft mark. However finding petrol on rivers/canals is very difficult.

(Mind you, seems there's pleanty of LPG on the Ouse /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif ).

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Real boaters do it on the Humber </font color=blue>
 
Re: DIESEL MYTH?

Its not LPG its actually all the CFC's that have been drained off from the fridges before they are thrown in the river - waste not want not tha knows

Why so you say 30ft as a cut off point Martyn, do you think performance suffers above that?

As you are now a Soltron drinker we shall discuss this further when we meet in the Ship - I believe they have it on draught there now.

<hr width=100% size=1>Martyn
 
Re: DIESEL MYTH?

I just think that if I could afford a boat of say 33 ft or more, I would want to go on some serious cruises, so both the cost and availability of petrol would be a major issue (although again it depends upon location, and if prices equalise, then I'm sure petrol will become more available).

Also, I do think the torque issue would be significant enough of a factor by the time you get up to 33 ft, six ton machines.

There's also other issues like having to have a separate diesel tank for the eberspacher! (and not being able to have a gas fridge)

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Real boaters do it on the Humber </font color=blue>
 
Re: DIESEL MYTH?

Big grief with older petrol engines is reliability.Every single one of my boats previous to this one was petrol and they all without fail let me down at some time or other.Worst of all was twin 120hp mercruiser nightmare which even if you could get it going would let you down at every opportunity.Must stress this was all with boats that were 10/15 years old.Newer stuff must of course be much better.

<hr width=100% size=1>Two boats please one here n one in the Med
 
Re: DIESEL MYTH?

I don't think you will need to worry about Petrol if they do away with the Red, at the end of th eday it is supply and demand, it would not take long to get the Petrol back to the pumps. I am concerned at the change that will take place especially as I am looking to get a diesel boat but as you say, mileage is the factor that you have to look at.

I have a selection of different cars for different uses, we have the diesel for the 50k annual work miles, all the rest are petrol because I use them for pleasure and the miles are so low, I prefer the quietness and performance. I only did 805 miles in one of the sporty ones last year, but there again I don't believe they do a diesel version, although I am test driving their new 4x4 in a week or so /forums/images/icons/wink.gif SWMBO's diesel is a very fast big car that she changes every year anyway, but she only chooses that for the economy or I would have the E 55 AMG with performance 0-62.5 mph: 4.7 secs a maximum speed : 155 mph!! But with diesel on the 320 we get a performance 0-62.5 mph: 7.7 secs with a maximum speed : 151 mph. The max speeds are only of use to us in Germany, so not used more than a couple of times a year. We are ready to change again and have been looking at the XC90 if anyone has one, it's either that or the same car yet again for the 3rd year. Its funny as we started looking at about 200 cars, knocked off all on the list that were not auto or diesel and were left with 3 choices.

I guess if you are really knocking up loads of miles then diesels are the reliable engines long term, that's why most foreign taxi's are our car /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif You just have to put up with the extra noise until it is warmed up, but performance in car diesels now seems to match some petrols, don't know about marine diesels though, but reading oldgits post it seems the same in boats.



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>
 
I had a Petrol boat with twin 5ltr volvo's, I had it converted to LPG by MGS. The boat ran fine on LPG but with only 220 ltrs of LPG the cruising range was limited (about 3 hours) unless we switched back to petrol. The conversion cost £5000, if I was in the position again I wouldn't bother as £5000 buys a lot of petrol. I guess the resale of the boat may be a little more after a conversion but I doubt if you would get the investment back fully (although I sold the boat for 10k more than I paid for it)

The running costs of an LPG boat compared with a diesel are nothing near as close as the adverts lead you to believe. In my experiance LPG is at least 20% less efficient than petrol and petrol is at least 20% less efficient than diesel.
With deisel available in the Solent for around 25p and LPG for around 36p and LPG being IMO at least 40% less efficient than diesel I would suggest you keep your conversion money in your pocket and just wince every time you fill up with petrol.

I now own a twin diesel boat and must say diesel power in a boat is far superior to petrol. Also you can half submerse a diesel engine in water and it'll keep running, a petrol engine needs only to be shown water and all those electrics start getting their knickers in a twist.

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