Lowrance 3600 + Tide times Nauticpath / Navionics

[PembrokeshirePromise]

Hi,

What follows is a very nerdish look at the tide time calculations of the two different charting options for this unit. I fully understand anyone who loses the will to live reading this. However if you have this unit or the 3500 I would be interested in your observations.

First I should say that basically I'm very pleased with the new toy - and thanks to all those on here who's posts helped me choose it. I'm still evaluating which chart base to go for and have both on trial.

General observations would be that detail is similar on both NauticPath and Navionics. Personally I think that the Navionics display better - especially when looking at buoyage etc on larger harbour entrances (surely one of the times you want it to be clear). Nauticpath has the detail - but some of teh icons and depth soundings etc are larger - so it looks more cluttered until you zoom in further.

Anyway - in comparing I looked at the tide / current data and thats when the trouble started - both seemed to have issues with BST and daylight saving. I was looking at a tidal estuary I know well - so know that the current should turn pretty close to HW/LW - but ended up finding all sorts of oddities and thoroughly confusing myself - hence this post in the hope that someone can either say it works in other areas and I just picked som duff tidal stations to test with - or that I've missed a setting on the unit - or that they also have problems.

I've seen others post with the Fathoms / metres issue - which still seems to exist on the most recent software for this unit.

GlobalMap 3600c iGPS
Version 1.3.0
Build LL10202C

Navionics

If depth is set in metres then T shows depth in fathoms (and vice versa)
Feet works OK

With unit set to BST with UK Daylight saving
- Tides on the detailed screen with the graphs are shown in GMT (which is OK) but the Current (and possibly Tide height) on the icons shown on the chart itself seem to use the BST time - and so show currents changing an hour before they actually do and incorrect tide heights on the tide gauge icon.

Setting local time to be GMT (as opposed to BST) causes all the tidal times (on the graph pages) to be set back another hour - so definitley wrong (this is with DST set to UK)

If DST is turned off - and time is set to GMT - then tide graph displays in GMT and it appears that the tidal heights icons are also correct ? Current graph also apears correct (GMT)

NauticPath

metres and fathoms are again reversed.
Feet work OK

Everything set to GMT + no DST
Slack water seems to be an hour early on the Current graph
Using the T - real time height and times for HW/LW seem OK (in GMT)

Set at BST with DST set for UK
Height of T icon gauge seems correct
HW/LW times are correct (BST)
Current graph appears to be in GMT (i.e. one hour early) - suspect this also relates to the C icon arrow display.

So in conclusion it would seem that using Navionics charts with the unit set to GMT with no daylight saving is teh only combination that fully works /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Anyone still awake ...

 

[duncan]

awake yes

looking forward to playing with these options over the weekend......maybe!

I use the Nautipath chart in this unit - and an older Navionics XL chart (without tidal data I think) in a LCX-15MT unit.

Agree your conclusions re icons / zoom etc but as mine is at the helm and I am constantly changing the zoom the Nautipath ends up the better colour display for me. I also like the blue 'recommended tracks' on the Nautipath - very reassuring traveling up the Ortac passage (East of the Casquets / West of the Swinge) last Saturday.

 

[tonyleigh]

Have come to Forum on this very issue having approached Carteret from Sark last week with brand new set-up and run screaming back to paper chart and almanac!!! Using Navionics Gold Chart. Back home have tried to relate info with tide tables and almanac using Navplanner on my PC and finding significant differences. Are tides calculated for each marked tide point from harmonic tables or by reference to a standard port? Can't find any info on Navionics site, no manual supplied with chart, and Help files somewhat lacking in detail. Very interested in others' experiences. Will check out your settings on plotter on the water over the weekend.

Both awake and keen to follow thread developments!

 

[bluedragon]

If you search on my previous posts you'll see I've been complaining about the tidal module since last year, and despite a meeting with a VP of Lowrance at the LBS in Jan, plus numerous e-mails since they have done NOTHING about the metre / fathom issue, or the fact that the Navionics data gets totally currupted for a few days each month. I also observed the GMT/BST issue and could never actually figure-out what the unit (3500C) was doing. The times always seemed to be about half-way between the two. The tidal module is not fit for purpose IMHO and needs a complete overhaul by Lowrance. I have no confidence in it and currently do not use it. Still pressing Lowrance to do something though AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OTHER USERS TO DO THE SAME...I seemed to be the lone voice in the wilderness over the past 9 months! Glad to find another nerd... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[PembrokeshirePromise]

Hi BlueDragon,

Yes - I saw you posts on the fathom / metre issue - must have missed the ones discussing timing of tides.

I raised this before buying and the supplier said he thought the tidal issues have been sorted - so I downloaded the latest updates and ... still there.

I've been playing this w/e again - and as far as I have seen the Navionics seems still seems to have been working OK with GMT, no BST offset and units in feet.

Have you seen any pattern to when the tides mess up for a few days each month - I'ev not seen this.

Also - do you have any way of knowing whether its Lowrance or Navionics who have the issue (I have nothing else to test teh Navionics card in).

I haven't played again with the NauticPath charts - but as I couldn't find any combination of settings that got the correct answers out of that I sort of gave up.

Do you have any contact details for people at the respective companies to contact ?

P.S. This aside - or perhaps I should say despite - still very happy with the new toy othewise

Thanks
James

 

[bluedragon]

Hi James...let me get back to you on this in a day or so when I have a bit more time. This thread will be pretty old by then, so I may raise a new one. I'll let you know anyway. I sent another e-mail to Lowrance today...and as quick reply I believe the problem is with them, not Navionics.

 

[tonyleigh]

I, too, have had a play this w/e. You won't be surprised that I confirm the metre/fathom issue. With unit set to BST and DST turned off I am getting correct display on the tide information screen and tide gauge icon - ie different from your experience. My version is 1.1.0, Build: LL2340C.

I also purchased Navplanner to prepare routes etc on my PC. This only offers option of displaying times in BST and in metres on a tide information screen. Intriguingly the data differs slightly from that displayed on the plotter and appears usually closer to what I expect comparing with tables based on HO harmonic constants. Is there more than one data file of tide info? Irritatingly I have a current marker displayed on the plotter in a location I am so familiar with that I could monitor changes in real time but it appears to be a dead link!

Navplanner/plotter transfer issue. I can save routes etc from the plotter to a card and load them into Navplanner on the PC. I can create routes etc on Navplanner and save them to a card. These saved files happily load back into Navplanner but when loaded into the plotter I cannot select the final Load Data command and the plotter crashes and reboots itself. I saved a file to card from the plotter and then tried to reload it to the lotter. Same result - failed to select final Load Data button and crashed. Anyone else with similar experience or idea as to cause?

 

[PembrokeshirePromise]

Do you have the 3600 ?
I found funny things happening displaying the Navionics charts (charts not filling in as map panned across) until I upgraded the software on the plotter - so I didn't play much before.

Might be the cause of your transfer issue (which worked for me - not that I've used it a lot)

Lowrance say 1.3.0 addresses:
Enhanced MMC memory card support
Includes all features from previous updates, including:
Added Gauges as an overlay option
Modified the "Transfer My Data" feature
Modified the popup information

I've also got a "C" icon with a dead link.
If (as others suggest) the primary issue is with Lowrance (as opposed to Navionics) then you might expect it to behave differently in their PC software (in fact could be a good cross check)

Hmm - not sure I tried BST with no daylight saving - may have missed that combination - I think I had it in my head that some of the time (possibly HW/LW ??) were taken from GPS satellite time - but to be honest I was confusing myself with the permutations I did try !

 

[cpedw]

Tony,
I have been having just that trouble being unable to load waypoints nad routes into the 3600. I have put them onto an SD card from the GDM program but I can't get the "Load Data" button to highlight then the thing crashes and sometimes reboots. There's a thread here about it. Other people don't seem to have this problem. If you solve it, I'd love to hear how.

Derek

 

[cpedw]

I was using the Nauticpath chart near Oban at the weekend and it seemed to show tide heights and currents in close agreement with other sources. It was set to metres, knots and local time, though I don't remember if that's BST with DST off or another setup.

Derek

 

[PembrokeshirePromise]

Derek,

Have you got the most recent software from the Lowrance website:

They say:
Lowrance say 1.3.0 addresses:
<span style="color:red">Enhanced MMC memory card support </span>
Includes all features from previous updates, including:
Added Gauges as an overlay option
<span style="color:red"> Modified the "Transfer My Data" feature </span>
Modified the popup information

I don't think I tried before I applied the update - so can't categorcially say it fixed the issue - but when I have tried with the update (only a couple of simple tests of waypoints) they transferred OK

Best wishes
James

 

[cpedw]

Yes, I plan to try updating the software next - when I get a chance; it seems a possible explanation. I was puzzled that no-one else except tonyleigh has had this difficulty but since the unit generally operates OK it seems unlikely to be a hardware fault (fingers crossed).

Derek

 

[tonyleigh]

Many thanks all. I realised from the Lowrance site that I needed to update software. I only got plotter the day before leaving for CI and prefering playing and sailing tried perhaps to run when I should have walked. Will try to get out to boat and update to latest version in next couple of days and report back. Pity Lowrance aren't a bit more upfront about such things on their site. Having come late and very hesitatingly to electronic charts I am enthused by the plotter but unsettled if I can't account for unreliability.