LOTS of Water inside boat interior hull :(

Thank you very much everyone for all of your inputs. I don't mind the work to be done but I really struggle with positive motivation and need to feel I have a list of tasks to tackle and see I'm making progress to keep me going.
First step is to fix the bow and window leaks. Then dry out the boat.

If I choose to cut a hole between the compartments and the bilge, do they need treat with something to stop water penetrating the hole? I'll buy some bungs to fill when not in use.
 
I think my number 1 priority would be to get inside dry as in no water in cupboards, voids or bilges. Till you know where any leaks are you may always have challenges! So unless you are ready to fix the GRP now, I'd get a roll of Duck tape out and seal them bits up. Get the bilge pump running and drain everything down. Lets make sure there is nothing major you don't know about before spending time and effort fixing leaks and discovering more.

You haven't answered much about your plans when she's ready to sail. Are you day sailing? Overnighting? how many people on board? Is engine working? Other electrics? Other power sources? How much did you pay for her? How long are you expecting refurb to take? How long would you expect to keep the boat once its fixed and are you looking to resell for what you have invested or accept a loss? What budget are you expecting to get her on the water for? All that helps us understand what solutions to suggest. Its easy to suggest the "perfect" fix but if time and budget don't allow there may be simpler fixes that will get you on the water quicker and may be perfectly suitable but either not as pretty (affecting resale) or not as durable (meaning twice the effort if you are keeping the boat, affecting resale if you aren't)
 
ShinyShoe said:
I think my number 1 priority would be to get inside dry as in no water in cupboards, voids or bilges. Till you know where any leaks are you may always have challenges! So unless you are ready to fix the GRP now, I'd get a roll of Duck tape out and seal them bits up. Get the bilge pump running and drain everything down. Lets make sure there is nothing major you don't know about before spending time and effort fixing leaks and discovering more.

You haven't answered much about your plans when she's ready to sail. Are you day sailing? Overnighting? how many people on board? Is engine working? Other electrics? Other power sources? How much did you pay for her? How long are you expecting refurb to take? How long would you expect to keep the boat once its fixed and are you looking to resell for what you have invested or accept a loss? What budget are you expecting to get her on the water for? All that helps us understand what solutions to suggest. Its easy to suggest the "perfect" fix but if time and budget don't allow there may be simpler fixes that will get you on the water quicker and may be perfectly suitable but either not as pretty (affecting resale) or not as durable (meaning twice the effort if you are keeping the boat, affecting resale if you aren't)
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Oh I've found another source of the bow leak... The deck squelches with water when I press around the hole. What do I do with this :o ?






Also to respond to your question shiny shoe:
Day sailing to begin with, then as I advance I'll venture further from port maybe a few overnights local to me and go from there. At the moment the engine needs repaired, it's a yanmar 1Gm10c it runs then cuts out after 5 min and really reduced power too. Apparently an engineer I emailed said he thinks it's a corroded exhaust elbow and possibly cylinder head needs cleaned/repaired if it's in there. Power requirements are low, I also have a small 2kw generator which will in the future run a microwave etc. 2 people on board. I paid £2000 and also have a dinghy and small outboard engine. I expect it to take until next season maybe lift her out in spring and paint her hull and anti foul to complete her. I also intend to keep her. She is a colvic 26ft sun rider with a bow sprit making her now 28ft.

Thanks.
 
Is that a baby stay? What's on the other side under the deck? I guess, assuming it doesn't hold the mast up (need a wider pic to be sure), that you need to undo the threaded fitting and withdraw the other piece it's fixed to back through below the deck. It's probably corroded, but may still be serviceable: you have to judge. You can replace it with lots of sealant to seal it. The deck should be solid there, but the fact that it squelches when pressed hints that the deck may be a sandwich of grp with balsa or plywood in between, which has probably rotted. If water is coming in between the grp layers of the deck then ask again. But start by looking below on the underside of the deck as I said above?
 
Yip. That's gonna want to come out. Dry out, and re-inforce from behind. (If its internally reinforced you are gonna swear lots, if its a backing plate replace it). Fill hole. Possibly by enlarging and fill with epoxy And re-drill. Insert fitting through a bed of sikka.

If you are lucky someone has used a ferrous washer and that's the source of rust.
 
Venomgrass said:
Also to respond to your question shiny shoe:
Day sailing to begin with, then as I advance I'll venture further from port maybe a few overnights local to me and go from there.
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So if the front cabin is damp and needs wripped out you could use her bare initially ..

At the moment the engine needs repaired, it's a yanmar 1Gm10c it runs then cuts out after 5 min and really reduced power too. Apparently an engineer I emailed said he thinks it's a corroded exhaust elbow and possibly cylinder head needs cleaned/repaired if it's in there.
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any risk is putting water in the boat?

Power requirements are low, I also have a small 2kw generator which will in the future run a microwave etc.
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.

You can get 300w tube heaters. Very safe. Would run nicely of the Genny. Will help drying out...

maybe lift her out in spring and paint her hull and anti foul to complete
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Why not lift now? Will be easier to dry her, easier to repair etc ashore.
 
Re the water in the boxes under the bunks. I would suggest you drill a small hole as low as possible in the wall of the box to allow the water to drain into the bilge. It an be pumped out of the bilge then. On the other hand if you fix the deck leaks the box should stay dry once you sponge the water out. If you do drill a hole it can later be plugged with a sikka or similar if you want the box sealed. I imagine if it is like my lttle boat with wooden box bunk structure that the wood might be damaged by rot. After it is dry you could just fill the rot area with epoxy as a short term fix. If you don't sleep there then it is not structural.
good luck olewill
 
Ok guys here is 4 photos below the deck where water is leaking from. Note the rotted Sampson post, and the rusty eyelet Which my previous photos show from the deck. This is what the window looks like below deck

Apologies the photos are not the right orientation. Tilt your head to the left :)







 
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OK - it's still not quite clear what's under the rusty wire stay, and is the deck a sandwich construction there or a single grp layer? From the pics we've got I reckon the baby stay terminates in a threaded eye that is bolted through the deck. I think I can see the stainless end in the last pic? You will learn quite a lot if you loosen the stay and take the eye out. Tape over the deck with gaffer tape temporarily while you decide what to do next? The other easy place to look is where the chain comes through - what's the deck construction there? The problem with a sandwich deck is that leaks in the top don't necessarily come through at the same place underneath - water wanders along the second grp layer and emerges elsewhere?
 
Ok guys three questions then I can start work. I've purchased a fiberglass kit with some gel coat.

1. Should I completely remove the Sampson post and continue to use the bow sprit, or somehow create another Sampson post and use this for my fore sail. Surely I'd need a smaller sail to the spare I planned using on the boat?

2. For the baby star. It connects from the bow deck to the mast. The mast won't fall down if I remove?? Do I remove it, drill it, fiberglass the hole up. Wait for it to dry and insert a new one in same position? Or is there a better solution?

3. For the deck hatch (window) could I remove it including the square wood it's mounted on, and mount it on a new piece of plywood using the same solution and fiberglass over the plywood? I could look for a direct square window replacement but they're obver £300 each!

Thanks
 
Venomgrass said:
Ok guys three questions then I can start work. I've purchased a fiberglass kit with some gel coat.

1. Should I completely remove the Sampson post and continue to use the bow sprit, or somehow create another Sampson post and use this for my fore sail. Surely I'd need a smaller sail to the spare I planned using on the boat?
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I may be wrong but I don't think the Sampson is connected to using a Bow Sprit. I think it was there to allow a string deck level fixing point (e.g. for mooring / towing etc.)?? However, I'd expect that post is / should be providing some rigidity to the deck.

What's the bottom of the post fixed to? Is the top rotten? Personally, I'd be tempted to run a batten across the whole width of the bow. But I would be ensuring there was a post. Either completely replacing or cutting part of it out and "splicing" in a new section with aid of epoxy.

2. For the baby star. It connects from the bow deck to the mast. The mast won't fall down if I remove?? Do I remove it, drill it, fiberglass the hole up. Wait for it to dry and insert a new one in same position? Or is there a better solution?
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Without seeing it from the outside its hard to say. Is there a separate forestay? If so the baby stay is not mission critical. If not then how is the mast held up?

OK - so here's what I'd do. Remove the stay (having made sure its safe). Then lets say its a 6mm screw I'd probably drill that hole out with a 10mm bit. Then the next depends on the construction.

If its not a sandwich I'd want to add some strength to the fibreglass so I'd take a 6-9mm thick piece of marine ply maybe 100x100mm square. roughen up the inside surface with some 40 grit paper and then use some glass resin (with cat) to glue it in place then apply one or two layers of CSM and resin over the top of the wooden backing plate. Coat with flowcoat for neatness. I'd fill then 10mm hole with epoxy mixed with some microfibres. Then drill a new 6mm hole in the same place as before through the epoxy and wood backing. Insert the new stay mounting and add some sikkaflex. Use a large stainless penny washer (25mm) and nylock nut on the inside. You want sikka to come out from the penny washer as you tighten up. Clean up the sikka excess. (you have effectively created a bit of a local sandwich)

If it is a sandwich is it a) a local sandwich or b) the whole foredeck? If its a local sandwich you at least know how far the water can have run within the sandwich! If the sandwich filling is wet it needs to come out. If its local I'd be tempted to just grind it out from the inside and replace it all. If thats a wood sandwich basically you are doing a above. If its foam you could either replace with a wooden sandwich or see if you can find a suitable foam...

If its the whole foredeck thats a sandwich its likely foam. I doubt you can properly repair that so I'd bodge it! That means I'd be tempted to add a batten running across the width of the boat at the point the screw comes through. Just 4-6mm thick (ply or a hardwood strip) probably 50mm wide. Over coated with 1 or two layers of CSM as above. Before attaching that I'd very carefully (probably with a hole saw) drilling/cutting a small opening (smaller than half the width of the batten strip) then using a bent screw driver to scrape out what you can. if its damp dry and dry it out with some gentle heat. Then use some open cell foam (a kitchen sponge will do) once cut to a suitable size soak it in some epoxy resin and push it into the void. Then fill the hole you cut with some CSM & Resin, then fit the batten. Finally, fix the hole on the outside! Re-drill and fix as before.

That may be over-kill. But without knowing what the rest of the glass work is like adding some extra strength seems the right thing to do to me!

3. For the deck hatch (window) could I remove it including the square wood it's mounted on, and mount it on a new piece of plywood using the same solution and fiberglass over the plywood? I could look for a direct square window replacement but they're obver £300 each!
Thanks
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What you currently have looks sh17 to me.

Obviously the right fix is to fit a replacement window. But yeh at £300 that is crazy.

If you are going to use ply look at this video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVvafzPnFaA ) and see if you can create something similar? Id cut into that a Perspex pane.

OR if you are feeling ambitious make one from fibreglass. This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMyNh2bxC0k might help. Get a bit of 18mm MDF and a router and make the shape you want and route the edges to have a curved profile etc. Prime, Paint with car spray paint, and then follow his instructions to make a mould. Again I'd fit a perspex panel into that.

If you are not using the forward area for sleeping... do you need a window in it? Non windowed hatches are available much cheaper?
 
Wow thank you shiny shoe!! I'm still reading your post but for the meantime here's another photo I took from outside:

A - baby star?
B - window
C - Sampson post, rotted exposed part covered by temp metal plate and silicone.

 
OK I'm more confused than ever! Based on an earlier post you have a Colvic Sunrider 25 thats been converted to a 26? Here are some pics of a 25.

http://plymouth.boatshed.com/sunrider_25-boat-205363.html

Note the baby stay is attached differently. Any signs of it having been on the front of the cabin roof previously?
Any signs that the bowsprit ran right back to the cabin?
Any sign that the deck is reinforced enough near A to take the load?

If you look at the first photo on that page the mast has a baby stay on the cockpit front, and a stay at the very front (plus a roller furller). If you disconnect its baby stay the furller and forward stay will hold the mast up. Is there a stay in front of the baby stay that will hold up the mast?

Worth a look at the hatch on that boat too. A hatch with some form of air vent...
 
I seriously don't know what to do. Thanks for the post with the link to the sun rider for sale, mine doesn't have any signs of a baby stay in the coach roof. It may however have once had a bowsprit to the cabin look at the photos below.

I don't know where to tackle the problems, rusty baby stay and if I loosen it there's nothing else supporting the mast From the bow. Leaking deck, presumably from the rusty baby stay deck entry. The current window and the rotten sampson post.





:(
 
Venomgrass said:
I seriously don't know what to do. Thanks for the post with the link to the sun rider for sale, mine doesn't have any signs of a baby stay in the coach roof. It may however have once had a bowsprit to the cabin look at the photos below.

I don't know where to tackle the problems, rusty baby stay and if I loosen it there's nothing else supporting the mast From the bow. Leaking deck, presumably from the rusty baby stay deck entry. The current window and the rotten sampson post.





:(
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A babystay is there to stop the mast moving back in the middle; it doesn't hold the mast up - that's the job of the forestay, which goes to the bowsprit currently. As long as the forestay is in place, the babystay can be removed and all will be fine. If you want to remove the forestay too temporarily, then you must replace the forestay with a halyard (or two) from the masthead tied to the bow and winched firmly. But make sure the halyard is good first. It's all common sense really, but a steep learning curve for you. It would all be easier of course if the boat was ashore and the mast down? Any cheap yards round there with a crane?
 
Yeah guys the entire deck around the baby stay entry point, when I walk over it the floor of the deck squelches beneath my feet. When I go into the hull where the births are below the sampson post there's water droplets and if I press the ceiling water bubbles out. I'm really worried this will be u repairable. Should I start drilling holes to see if it drys out? Or repair the hole to prevent more rain water getting in then start drying it out somehow?

I don't have anyone else to ask questions to, so thanks so much for any input. :)
 
Venomgrass said:
Yeah guys the entire deck around the baby stay entry point, when I walk over it the floor of the deck squelches beneath my feet. When I go into the hull where the births are below the sampson post there's water droplets and if I press the ceiling water bubbles out. I'm really worried this will be u repairable. Should I start drilling holes to see if it drys out? Or repair the hole to prevent more rain water getting in then start drying it out somehow?

I don't have anyone else to ask questions to, so thanks so much for any input. :)
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For a start you need to keep in mind that grp is almost always repairable. Second, you sound new to boating so there's loads to learn - that's what makes it so worthwhile. Third, there are books to learn from - do you have any yet on boat maintenance and repair? There are people to learn from - do you know of a local club you might join? And of course there is Google. Over the years almost any topic has cropped up here or on other forums. Google will find loads of old threads?

It sounds to me like this is a balsa-sandwich deck which has been leaking for a while. To judge by all the sealant around in your photos, the last owner knew about these problems and had tried to stop them. Did you ever discuss the condition of the boat? To make progress I imagine you will have to open things up a bit and remove some stuff to see what's just wet and what is rotten in the deck. Tapping with a light hammer from above will show where things are changing in various places on the deck. Maybe cut some 50mm holes from below in the lower layer (not right through, just the lower layer of the sandwich)? Keep the pieces you cut out to glue back later.

You also need to stop the leaks. I guess you'll have to search the deck area for anything that could cause a leak anywhere in the vicinity. The baby stay is the first place but the whole area around the top of the samson post is suspect too.

If your research indicates that the whole area is weakened by rot in the core, one approach would be to take a grinder and cut the bottom layer away as a whole sheet, leaving just an edge all the way round that you can re-attach it to. Then remove the rotten core and put a sheet of rigid foam or even plywood in and glue it all back together. There's loads more advice above too from others.
 
As said if the core of the foredeck is rotten indicated by squelching and indenting under foot then it needs to be repaired. The core needs to be replaced. You have 2 choices either cut away the top deck and lift off the top layer or cut away the bottom layer from underneath. If you can, cut away the whole top layer in one or 2 pieces such that it can be replaced so preserving the non skid pattern and face of the GRP. If you cut away small sections it will be difficult/impossible to get the same surface appearance.
Hence many people will choose to cut away underneath. Repair is not so easily seen. But working up side down is horrible with GRP. Not recommended.
You need to decide early on if you hope to retain the original gel coat finish or if you will paint the decks. I suspect painting will be easier. This covers all sorts of repairs. However painting smooths the non skid so you might need more sand or similar on the surface. Or paint with paving paint non skid.
I would suggest removing the sampson post all together. Mooring /towing can be done by a horn cleat or suitable size attached to the deck or better the inboard side of the bow sprit.
The deck needs to be strong enough (stiff enough) to take up loads of the baby or inner forestay. This is achieved by thickness ie thicker dimension made by having foam or balsa between two layers of GRP. Plywood is also often used. The thickness needs to be carried out to the gunwhale attachment.
You might need to remove the bow sprit to deal with rotten deck under the bow sprit. This will mean you need to substitute the forestay with a halyard or similar to hold the mast up. Or attach the forestay to something else at the bow.
You cut out the top deck covering in one or 2 pieces. Often a join down the middle when replacing can be OK. Scrape out all the rotten balsa filling. Get a sheet of polyurethane foam. Not polystyrene foam which will dissolve in the styrenes of the resin. Lay the foam cut to size in place and stick in with plenty of resin with a filler to thicken it. Get foam a bit thicker than needed so that it can be sanded down after glueing in place to give a correct level for the top deck to sit on. No air gaps and lots of resin filler. To improve strength and stiffness at the bow sprit attachment and baby stay attachment. The foam can be cut out and fibre glass layed in. Typically 3 or 4 layers of cloth or a strip of mat going from gunwhale to gunwhale. A bit of carbon fibre cloth can add even more stiffness if you can find it at a reasonable cost. Where the baby stay will attach carve out the foam and fill with glass and resin. This so that you can bolt through solid GRP. Use a large washers on the inside. With lots of sealer around the bolt. Likewise for the bowsprit attachment bolts and mooring cleat if it is fitted to the deck.
With regard to the hole where the sampson post came out the deck. All you can do is lay cloth and resin over the foam to build up a decent GRP thickness. Then cover with a good coat of flowcoat resin or ordinary resin with wax and pigment to the right colour. Count on sanding a fair bit to get it respectable.

Re the front hatch cover I would make a new complete GRP hatch. You don't need a window here. Make a female mold out of wood so the box shape inside dimensions are the size of the outside of the cover. Presumably there is a lip in the deck to stop water running in. The new cover needs to have a lip going down outside the deck lip by an inch or more. The inside of the mold must be as big as the outside of the deck lip plus the thickness of GRP of the cover. Typically about 5mm thick GRP.
The mold is made smooth on the inside with something like plaster filler that is easily sanded. Fillet the corners so the end result has rounded edges. You need to put lots of wax (floor wax is OK) on the inside of the mold. This makes it smooth and shiny but allows for release of the cover when cured. You amy need to desroy the mold to get the cover out. You will probably want a non skid surface on the hatch cover. You can paint with flow coat after removal applying sand to the wet surface. Or for a proper non skid pattern you can google for non skid pattern making mold material. I would go for sand or Intergrip. (from International paints)
Indeed you may end up wanting to paint the whole deck in which case use intergrip over the centre areas for non skid surface.
Anyway try making the hatch cover. You can do this at home and get the hang of this GRP malarky.
This is just a few pointers scan the web or get a book on mixing resin etc good luck olewill
 
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