Lose NHS rights after 3 months

[charles_reed]

E 111

was replaced in 2005 with a permanent EU healthcard.

As this gives no indication as to when it started the "rule" no longer applies.

In fact I've had medical attention in both Spain and France on an E111 which was more than a year old (in both hospitals involved waiting less than 20", very different to experiences in the UK).

I strongly suspect that with an organisation drowning in superfluous "administrative" staff and spurious "targets" the rules are manufactured by a self-serving bureaucracy to justify themselves. The urgent necessity for a cleansing of the Augean stables of NHS Trusts is highlighted by the financial crises in 5 trusts (of which 2 are in the Midlands).

With friends who have been on Trust boards and with my experience of the NHS over most of my working life I can see the cumulative breakdown of a brave experiment under the weight of parasitic administrative staff and obsessional, ill-designed Treasury reports.

'Bout time something was done about it (and I don't mean another Commission and another layer of "managers".

 

[charles_reed]

Possibly

an unfortunate example - Belgium being part of the EU one would have reciprocal status.

More likely a Channel Islands' resident would be inadmissable, though I'm not at all sure about that, 'cos they seem to be able to have their cake and eat it.

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're ordinarily resident in the UK and have a UK address but have been abroad for more than three months and then turn up sick at a UK hospital, how would they know you've abroad for more than 3 months unless you tell them?

[/ QUOTE ]In my wife's case we were asked as we arrived with her leg in a plaster than had been put on in Spain, and a Spanish X-Ray. Imagine also coming back home having been diagnosed with something nasty, with the test results, meds, etc. Another example would be an exotic disease that you would be unlikely to contract in the UK.

Remember, it seems that the onus is on you, the patient, to prove that you are entitled (i.e. have not been disqualified due to being not ordinarily resident) if they challenge you.

 

[abraxus]

I understand that, but in most cases you could just say you were away for two weeks surely?

 

[ELLIS100]

If its anything like the Inland Revenues definitions then its very hard NOT to be ordinarily resident.

 

[masca]

Does paying voluntary NI whilst you are away make any difference to the situation? Or does this only effect the state pension?

 

[boatmike]

Even that Simon is a guide for people "taking up" or "resuming" ordinary residency. To do that you would have had to have chosen to adopt overseas residency or have come from overseas in the first place. I believe you will find that if you are domiciled in the UK and have a UK address, if you are paid in the UK, even a pension, paying tax in the UK, and/or a holder of a UK passport, then even if you spend an indefinite period abroad you are still an "ordinary resident" of the UK and entitled to treatment. The rest is not relevant IMHO.

 

[boatmike]

I believe that is exactly the case.

 

[Anonymous]

No. Believe me, if you have been out of the country for more than a few months you might be asked to pay for NHS treatment. We were questioned in November at the Royal Berkshire Hospital after an absence of a matter of weeks, simply because my wife had a Spanish plaster and a Spanish X-Ray.

They do ask, and they can refuse to treat. The onus is on YOU to prove your eligibility for NHS services, not on THEM to prove your ineligibility. I think that armed with the print-outs Simon produced, with UK driving licence and UK credit cards one ought to be able to make a case but it is far from certain since individual hospitals are charged with making the decision on a case by case basis. There is no definitive rule.

 

[lille_bee]

Re: Possibly

if you live, work, and pay taxes in Belgium, then the Belgians will issue you with an E111-type card, so that if you ever needed medical treatment in Britain whilst visiting that country, you would be treated like any other british resident.
HOWEVER: The E111 does not entitle you to shop around different countries for the best treatment, i.e. if the sole purpose of your visit to the UK is to obtain medical treatment, then the NHS could well charge you. "Health Tourism" is not allowed.
Mind you, having worked as a pharmacist in both Britain and Belgium, I can't imagine why anyone would choose to be treated in Britain rather than on the Belgian state service...

 

[boatmike]

I don't doubt that you are correct, but you are clearly eligible and should be able to prove it quite easily. I actually had the same problem after having spent 18 months in the USA but presenting a PAYE coding notice from the IR showing my National Insurance number made the problem go away immediately.

 

[MedMan]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Have a look at your NHS Medical Card. You have all got yours tucked away in a safe place haven't you? On the front, right at the top it says:

Please keep [this card] in a safe place. It is proof that you are entitled to NHS treatment.

On the back it says:

If you go abroad for more than three months: Please send this card back to us. You will need to register with a doctor again when you come home.

Now that would be a silly thing to do wouldn't it? For this, and a hundred and one other reasons, you need to keep an address in this country even if you have let or sold your own home. From talking to numerous yachties over the years it would appear that the most common way to do this is to use the address of a son, daughter or friend. Transfer everything to that address: banks, income tax, pension, driving licence, credit cards etc etc. Then register with the nearest NHS doctor and the nearest dentist and be certain to visit them before you leave and every time you return to the UK. Even better, if you have a regular repeat prescription, get your son/daughter/friend to hand in the repeat request and collect it on a regular basis.

There are many things that you need to worry about before setting off long-term cruising, but this is not one of them. Just follow the path outlined above and all will be well. But do it quietly, and don't ask any questions lest you be given an answer you don't like.

 

[CodStewart]

I was out of the UK for 12 years and still managed to get a major op done on NHS. To do this I went to my grandfather's dr and got a referral to a hospital. No questions were asked. As long as you are British, you can always get treatment. Or maybe things have changed from 2 years ago?

 

[charles_reed]

I believe

the NHS rules allow the executive to disbar anyone who has been non-resident in the UK for 3 months or more. The rule has been there such a long time that it's unlikely to be challengeable through normal executive channels.

In this period of insolvent hospital trusts this is very likely to be invoked by "management".
Most of the caring staff will, from conviction, reject such a ruling - it's very unlikely that someone, will in an acute emergency, be refused treatment.

However until this ruling has been tested in the courts and a definitive decision handed down there is a possibility the rule would be exercised.

I'm sure that if Lemain cares to challenge such a ruling - perhaps to the European Court of Human Rights - members of this forum will be willing to start a fighting fund for him.

However, how many of you see your doctor more frequently than quarterely (unless undergoing a course of treatment).

 

[BrendanS]

Re: I believe

raises an interesting question. I've not been to see a doctor since I was 14, and to my best knowledge am not registered with one. Would I be refused admittance to a UK hospital, or refused treatment until I could prove I was a UK national.

I suspect not.

 

[chrisc]

Only effects pension ,I have just checked with NI (paying my back voluntary contributions)

 

[boatmike]

Re: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just because there is doggie poo on the pavement does not mean you are compelled to step in it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Nice one!!!

 

[Anonymous]

NHS

[ QUOTE ]
the NHS rules allow the executive to disbar anyone who has been non-resident in the UK for 3 months or more. The rule has been there such a long time that it's unlikely to be challengeable through normal executive channels.


[/ QUOTE ]Where did you find this rule? So far in this thread we have heard that anyone who is 'ordinarily resident' in the UK is entitled to treatment and all emergencies. Where did you find the reference to 3 months and the date it was introduced?

 

[Anonymous]

NHS

I don't know what the 'Shhhhh-ing' is about; it is not going to make an issue go away to ignore it! My wife was actually challenged last November. Remember that yachties are only the tiny tip of a huge live-on-the-costas community. Being quiet about it and not discussing it amongst ourselves is only going to make us ill-informed.

In any case, I have no interest in planning my life around taking services that I am not entitled to. I want to understand the actual law and regulations and we will plan our lives around it, properly.

Having prescriptions made up and sent out to you is utterly irrelevant, as far as I can see. The issue is whether your feet are planted on UK soil, or not. If they are not, then at some stage maybe you become ineligible for NHS services. What I want to get to the bottom of is what the rules or law actually says - at that stage we can talk about ways of coping with it but not before.

Perhaps the suggestion is that one should deceive the NHS if asked but that isn't a route that I favour. It is dishonest and leaves one feeling worried that things might not work out if someone was ill. It's just not the way I go about leading my life, but maybe I am in the minority, in this day and age?

 

[charles_reed]

Look at

the front of your NHS card where it tells you, that you are supposed to deregister with your doctor if not resident in the UK for a period exceeding 3 months.

If you're going to ask me which sub-clause of which Act of parliament that is enshrined I am going to refuse point-blank to pander to your obsessional neurosis.