long keel boats to windward?

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silverdawn

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I Have only owned two boats, both bilge keelers one 26ft the current 20 ft I would like a boat that can go to windward against a foul tide.
I like the older boats ie wing 25- halcyon 27 i have never sailed in ether, are there any owners of these that can advise me of the good points and bad points and do they sail close to the wind? your advice would be appreciated.
 
Unfortunately, I cant comment on the sailing qualities of Halcyon etc. from first hand experience. But if you are looking at this type of boat, a Contessa 26 looks good, long keel and has a great reputation (has been cirumnavigated too). I looked at one, and also at a Halcyon 27 -but the Halcyon has much better (standing) room for similar price.
Apart from advice on the forums, check out the second hand boat tests on PBO - you can order tests from back copies which usually give a good insight into pro/cons of particular boats.
 
y long keel, they dont go backwards in marinas
wot about
sonata,any of the hunter group around the 25/26 ft
pegasus 700 / 800
impala now some have i/b engines
benny-first 25
hustler 25.5 a fine boat lacking in accomodation but a fine sea boat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Long keel are more relaxed sailing, you can at least release the tiller and they carry on in a straight line, just needs a little more skill to reverse.
Our Halcyon 27 has two Trans-Atlantics under her belt, and there are a number sailing round the globe.
Have a look at Sailing today, May 2004, they did a new used boat test on a Halcyon 27.
Or log on to the class webb site, www.oycoc.org.uk.

Brian
 
If your priority is a boat that will go well to windward, then the only choice is a fin keeler. No doubt some will dispute that, but the fact is that if one set out today to design a new boat to have that ability, then one would never design it as a long keeled boat.

Not knocking long keeled boats, just stating what is best if windward ability really is your priority.

John
 
HI gibbo,

Whilst the Vegas are ok going forward, they are a disaster when close quarters handling astern. I have sailed one a fair bit, though many years ago, and it appears to be caused because the propeller is fitted aft of the rudder . /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

A good friend of mine bought one last year and has been shocked at just how difficult to manouevre it is, so there may be one on the market at the end of this season! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Fairly good boats otherwise. Most will have been re-engined by now, but if not, expect big bills/hassle in keeping the lumpy old Volvos (original fit) going. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The Contessa 26 sails beautifully, but is very cramped and incredibly wet in anything of a sea. Sailed one loads of times all round the south coast and Brittany. Again there are the handling astern problems, though these tend to be more predictable than on the Vega.

I like the Halcyon 27, though have only sailed one once, so can't sensibly comment on overall performance. Just remember a super day out sailing very well! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers Jerry
 
The Wing 25 is a pretty boat but has a short waterline length and speed is not great. I used to sail in company with one many moons back in a Trident 24 triple keeler and the two boats were a close match. The Halcyon 27 is certainly a capable boat and a much better proposition than a C026 which is much smaller.

However there is a misconception that only long keelers are steady and straight on the helm because if you really want to go to windward and against a tide you need the windward ability of a fin keeler. A good fin keel boat will take you upwind and down much faster and without all the close quarters handling problems of long keelers, especially astern and in confined spaces like marinas. The fin keelers I have owned have all been capable of steering themselves on the wind and you could also let go of the helm without them making a swift exit stage left/right, that is perhaps a trait of a flat out racer but isn't characteristic of the average especially those with moderately long fins rather than dangling daggers.

Around the cheaper 25-28ft range you could look at the Sadler 25/26s, Hustler 25, Sabre 27s, Westerly Tiger 25s, Trapper 500s but there are many others and if we knew your budget we could give a bigger list.
 
Welcome to the forum,

What you really need is a Trapper 500/501, not a long keel, but a long fin. Stiff, very safe and fast and plenty of room for 27ft. Will spin on the keel and a doddle to move in a marina. Course, I am biased as I own such a beast, but if you are in the area, I would be quite happy to show you and go for a sail in our boat. We are based in Southsea, thats the posh end of the Solent.

Regards /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Hi Jerry

I am obviously biased but I find the Vega ok to handle in reverse. It takes practise but then so do all long keelers. I have sailed, probably, ovr 100 different sailboats and find the Vega average in going astern compared to the rest but superb going forwards sailing which is what they were designed to do. There are options on extra help-rudders that can be fitted and makes it like driving a car but they are sailboats. Volvo parts are expensive but most boats of that era had Volvos or Bukh and most have been re-engined. All parts are still available and last but not least probably the best Owners Association going (Not my words!). Have a look at the website and speak to any Vega owner, 3450 can't be wrong.... I know I am biased but I try to be subjective.
 
I have owned an Halcyon 27 and it was a very nice boat. However going to windward was not one of her strong points. They also heel very easily, but then will stay that way without broaching much longer than a fin keeler. I now have a Bolero 25 quarter tonner. It is brilliant and instead of always being last in I now have a couple of firsts. It is a mystery to me why these quarter tonners are so cheap ( + - 6k). They are fantastic value for money. Unless you want to do long sea passages long keel boats are not to my mind ideal. As with choosing any boat, it's important to decide what you want to do with it. Not always that simple. it took me 4 boats to discover my family wern't interested and I really wanted to race! Good Luck.
 
Vegas do go backwards in marinas. Try one first. I have had to reverse into a pontoon berth in F6 on the nose with a tide across the berth, not easy and took me four attempts but possible. SAILBOATS SAIL FORWARD. I agree that ifyou want faster windward performance then a fin keeler is usually better. Make out a list of wants, then put pros and cons for each type, try out on each type before you buy, look at back-up, owners associations, price then go for it.
 
Buy a Twister

Will go to windward in F8.

The owners of many boats claim that their pride and joy will do so; few really will.

A Twister really will.

I don't own one and have no vested interest - but if you want to go to windward, a Twister is what you want.
 
Re: Buy a Twister

I was about to suggest a Twister too. Again, I've never owned one but have sailed in them and been very impressed. The Frances 26 looks like the goods but I've no personal experience. Don't be put off by the close-quarters handling difficulty of long keelers - this is much less serious with a smaller boat.
 
We have a deep fin She 31b and she goes to windward like you wouldn't believe...& she's very beautful to boot...but very limited accomodaton....a good friend had a She 27 (even less accomodation) and I swear she could point straight at the wind and would outpoint a Contessa 32 - mind you he's an exceptional helm!
 
Re: Buy a Twister

As we were reaching round the bottom end of Bute late yesterday about to turn north, Pequita, a beautiful composite Twister (GRP hull, wooden coachroof) crossed close ahead of us close-hauled, ploughing southwards into about 25 knots, black sea and white tops, heading home from Kip to Arran, and obviously absolutely in her element. Then she was suddenly lit up in a shaft of sunlight. What a picture! But the camera was 30 seconds too far away and my photo of the year was gone forever. If a boat that size fits your needs, get a Twister.
 
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