London Numpty

[Daydream believer]

In the 70s we used to race the Stella class (25ft 9 ins) across to Ostend, Nieuport & Boulogne in all conditions, from Burnham. Not unusual for 20+ entrants. Some of us would use the Ostend race as a starter to cruise the Dutch canals.
In early 2000s I sailed my one, SH, to those places quite often from the Blackwater.
So a 25 ft Westerly should be more than capable, albeit a bit slower perhaps

 

[Wansworth]

You would not last 5 minutes in a French school. The kids are taught in all weathers

In my youth I took six French girls out in a 14 foot tub…….unfortunately they only had eyes for the Firefly sailors,I was spotty and wore glasses

 

[Daydream believer]

Join a club like the Colne Yacht Club which has club Sonatas (there are others elsewhere which may have similar) where you can do RYA qualifications in relatively sheltered but interesting waters without getting feet wet (lots to see) and then sail in a group from time to time with experienced people for a fairly nominal day cost. Then when you are ready to have your own boat there are plenty of half tide moorings in the area and a water taxi.. Also the Community Club nearby has Sonatas but now concentrating on coastal rowing -great fun - lots of ladies in both groups so your wife would be made welcome for sailing and other activities - see the website. Boating is so much more than just sailing. Brightlingsea Sailing Club for dinghy RYA training and more serious racing. For people with children, there is the crabbing, and cadet fun sailing activities from a very young age. 3 yards to help you with the Centaur or Westerly Regatta if needed, 2 chandleries and a public hard for scrubbing.

Is not a Sonata a bit tippy for a wife & kids who may be a bit unsure at first?

 

[Egret]

Not aware that they are particularly tippy, quite steady. The Sonatas seem to work well as a club boat for both clubs. I see an organised club activity with experienced leaders in relatively sheltered water, mainly for fun, Mainly pick nice days, so presumably wouldn't go out if it was too rough, considering the people being taken if they were inexperienced; reef if appropriate and sail relatively upright, play the mainsheet and luff in gusts. Also a good fleet of privately owned Sonatas for racing, Cheap to buy and be competitive, less than a new ILCA/Laser, Nationals a couple of years ago and East Coast championships next year.

 

[Daydream believer]

…….unfortunately they only had eyes for the Firefly sailors,I was spotty and wore glasses

No change there then

 

[Wansworth]

No change there then

…….Iaskedfor that ……..I would say more disheveled,distinguished

 

[potentillaCO32]

Is not a Sonata a bit tippy for a wife & kids who may be a bit unsure at first?

I don't think a sonata is a tippy boat. I sailed my sonata back from ramsgate to burnham in a 6 to 7 and she was fine.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I raced a Sonata back in the 70's (crew) and had two of the most memorable scary moments of my career: 1. the fastest broach under spinnaker, 2. a tack where the jib sheet had a riding turn and we slammed through the wind and the spreaders went for a dip.

 

[westernman]

I raced a Sonata back in the 70's (crew) and had two of the most memorable scary moments of my career: 1. the fastest broach under spinnaker, 2. a tack where the jib sheet had a riding turn and we slammed through the wind and the spreaders went for a dip.

Now if you told me you got the top of mast covered in mud, I would have been really impressed.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Make sure the first sail is in light airs. My kids liked sailing on our boat until I decided to send them to dinghy sailing camp; the class went out in high winds and scared all the kids day one and my daughters haven’t wanted to sail since.
So much for having the professionals help!

Possibly best to find out they don't have the temperment for it at the beginning.

 

[Egret]

So when the spreaders touched the water presumably it came up fairly quickly. Did it take any water into the cabin? Useful to know, if it ever happens - Most sailing schools/clubs make control in heavy winds and capsizing part of the fun - something the experienced children often do when they go out onto the water just for fun and practice - first thing I did with my children when they started in dinghies - half an hour me tipping it over and them righting it and they were experts. We mustn't put off the OP, but has to be ready for when a 'friend' swims across, stands on the deck, hangs on the mast and tips the boat in - can't do that with a Sonata.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Now if you told me you got the top of mast covered in mud, I would have been really impressed.

It was in Plymouth Sound so mud on the mast would have been a disaster!

 

[ex-Gladys]

So when the spreaders touched the water presumably it came up fairly quickly. Did it take any water into the cabin? Useful to know, if it ever happens - Most sailing schools/clubs make control in heavy winds and capsizing part of the fun - something the experienced children often do when they go out onto the water just for fun and practice - first thing I did with my children when they started in dinghies - half an hour me tipping it over and them righting it and they were experts. We mustn't put off the OP, but has to be ready for when a 'friend' swims across, stands on the deck, hangs on the mast and tips the boat in - can't do that with a Sonata.

No, it was basically whipped around by the backed jib. I was on the "wet" side, and had my hands on the coaming ready to sheet in. I got wet half way up my forearms, but back up very quickly...

 

[Egret]

That's good to know if it ever happens, not an issue really then, no more than a green one over the bow, although I don't think that happens often on a Sonata. Thank you. Useful for the OP.

 

[ducked]

Not aware that they are particularly tippy, quite steady. The Sonatas seem to work well as a club boat for both clubs. I see an organised club activity with experienced leaders in relatively sheltered water, mainly for fun, Mainly pick nice days, so presumably wouldn't go out if it was too rough, considering the people being taken if they were inexperienced; reef if appropriate and sail relatively upright, play the mainsheet and luff in gusts. Also a good fleet of privately owned Sonatas for racing, Cheap to buy and be competitive, less than a new ILCA/Laser, Nationals a couple of years ago and East Coast championships next year.

Capsize ratio 2.52 according to Sailboatdata.com, 4WIW, so might be a bit tippy (Ballast ratio OTOH, is 41.26 which should be a bit stiff)
I suppose that might reflect its racing orientation.
Trident 24 is 1.87, again 4WIW. (Ballast ratio OTOH, is 37.13, which should be a bit tender)
I dont really know what its worth, but I think I prefer my lower number
Allows more fantasy.

In the context of the discussion though, maybe the comfort ratio might be the most relevent number (if any of them are) and here the Sonata comes over pretty lively at 11.7, with the Trident at 21.9.

 

[xyachtdave]

Make sure the first sail is in light airs. My kids liked sailing on our boat until I decided to send them to dinghy sailing camp; the class went out in high winds and scared all the kids day one and my daughters haven’t wanted to sail since.
So much for having the professionals help!

Yes, my daughter loved sailing her RS Terra around our boat at anchor and mucking about in it.

Add in a structured system of training and racing and she learned to hate it pretty quickly.

When she started in Oppies, there was day when it was blowing a gusty 20 plus, the boats were being blown off the launching trollies and the local big boat race fleet had a reef tucked in on fully crewed boats.

She said ‘I don’t want to go out,’ so we packed her boat up. The ‘instructor’ made similar noises you read on here, we used to sail in hurricanes in the winter and it didn’t do us any harm, I’ve done the channel in an 8 in a Wayfarer, it’s just a bit of wind, what’s up with you, etc etc.

This usually translates to I was cold, scared, wet, hungry, broke something expensive and in the case of bigger boats motoring all the way while over estimating the wind speed of a gusty F4-5.

Trust your gut feelings with the children and don’t risk putting them off. My daughter was T-Boned completely unnecessarily in her Laser by a much older kid about 6 years ago and she hasn’t been out once since.

 

[ducked]

As the OP is going to be in central London this might be an option:
Join the Little Ship Club | Little Ship Club

Crew for a member, but also attend training and social events a short underground/DLR (or Thames Clipper) run from Canary wharf

Wish I'd known about that when I worked in Lahndun and had loadsa money, though it doesn't even seem to be that expensive, in context.

 

[Spuddy]

Another suggestion to help your dithering. You and others have mentioned the Medway. Hoo Ness yacht club is a "we all help out" club which helps with costs. Swinging and trot moorings out in the river. Sounds as though you've got quite a bit of experience ( incl St Kilda! ) but for keeping your hand in the club do unserious racing, rallies up and down the East Coast and other crewing opportunities .
Ageing membership means members go ashore so there can be boats for sale in the club compound

 

[roblpm]

Another suggestion to help your dithering. You and others have mentioned the Medway. Hoo Ness yacht club is a "we all help out" club which helps with costs. Swinging and trot moorings out in the river. Sounds as though you've got quite a bit of experience ( incl St Kilda! ) but for keeping your hand in the club do unserious racing, rallies up and down the East Coast and other crewing opportunities .
Ageing membership means members go ashore so there can be boats for sale in the club compound

All great advice from everyone thanks. Been busy for December so haven’t kept up with the replies!

Does anyone have any advice about how it is sleeping on the swinging moorings on the Medway? One issue I think is if my mrs comes from work on Friday evening by train and I went on Thursday that there will be no trot boat at Medway yacht club for example. I’m not sure getting in the dinghy at 8pm on Friday evening is gonna make her happy…..

Yes I am a previous boat owner with a Coastal Skipper ticket (which obviously means nothing after a few years off. But I need experience getting back out on my own boat!!).

Thanks for all the replies though folks. Some great advice in here.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Ah.... here comes the problem.

Compromise.

If you want a low cost entry, with a decent 70s/80s boat with low mooring costs then you have to take the rough with the smooth.
Most swinging moorings will need a dinghy, even if there is a trot boat at times.
If keeping a non sailing wife happy is part of the criterion then imho you can rule out a swinging mooring. You can also rule out a 70s/80s boat. You would need a 2000s plus 34 footer plus with decent heads, shower, hot wster, galley and bed. You will need nice pontoon access.

That will cost a completely different scale of funds.

So without compromise you will prevaricate forever and never buy a boat. There will never be the right time to meet all your requirements. Or compromise and you can meet many of your requirements today.