Locking the steering

[Kelpie]

I'm having a bit of a mare of a time with my steering.
It's a supposedly bombproof Whitlock system which uses rotating shafts, universal joints, and gears.
I'd noticed some play in the system. Nothing that really affects performance, but with the wheel lashed the rudder can move about 5⁰ either way and in a rolly anchorage that causes a grinding noise from the autopilot ram- which is right under our bed.

We don't have a rudder lock, so I just have to tie the wheel. We have recently fitted a Hydrovane so now urgently need a more practical method of locking the rudder.

Last week I started to investigate the problem and noticed some play at the aft gearbox. I posted a thread on that- one of the mounting holes had been worn. That's all sorted now and the gearbox is very solidly mounted. But the play remains. Hmmph.

There's a second gearbox and I've now found some serious play at the input shaft. It looks like the bearing is done. So that's today's job...

Anyway, I still need to think about adding a steering lock. The conventional method seems to be to use a friction clamp just behind the wheel. I think I can build something that would do that.

But I'm wondering if it's possible (or sensible) to lock the steering much closer to the rudder. It would probably have to be operated via a bowden cable. This would take all of these linkages, joints, and most of the gearboxes out of the load path. Which is surely a good thing when an orca fancies a bit of rudder for lunch?

I don't want to reinvent the wheel though...

 

[NormanS]

I believe that with that system, there are shims which can be taken out (or put in) to remove any backlash. I'm sure if you Google it, you'll be able to find out more.

 

[Daydream believer]

Having seen articles about Orca attacks I have not seen any comments about windvanes.
Would a windvane deter an attack on the rudder & provide enough distraction for a playful whale?

 

[Kelpie]

I believe that with that system, there are shims which can be taken out (or put in) to remove any backlash. I'm sure if you Google it, you'll be able to find out more.

Yes there are shims between the wheel and the first rose gear. I'm hoping to get in to that part of the unit sorry so far my attempts have failed- I need a tool with two prongs at 32mm centres to undo the nut.

There is certainly some play in that area, but it's not the only culprit. Hence my thoughts about the steering lock completely bypassing all those components.

 

[LadyInBed]

grinding noise from the autopilot ram- which is right under our bed.

This infers that you have a stub tiller or a quadrant connected to the rudder stock for the A/H.
Is it possible to drill a hole through from bunk to hull to insert a pin to lock the rudder to the stub tiller or a quadrant?
If you want to go fancy, use a solenoid as the pin.

 

[Kelpie]

This infers that you have a stub tiller or a quadrant connected to the rudder stock for the A/H.
Is it possible to drill a hole through from bunk to hull to insert a pin to lock the rudder to the stub tiller or a quadrant?
If you want to go fancy, use a solenoid as the pin.

Yes, both the main steering system and the AP connect to the stub tiller.
Having a fixed pin to lock it amidships could work very well. Certainly an option for use at anchor. The only downside is that I couldn't then trim the rudder for use with the Hydrovane.

 

[geem]

If you are using the hydrovane you are going to need to adjust the rudder offset easily from the wheel. I would have thought that it was essential to have that available at the wheel, not elsewhere. In addition, there will be times when you want to take over the helm. You need to be able to unlock it at the helm.
I have just replaced the bearings in one of my Whitlock gearboxes. The bearings are imperial as you would expect. In my gearbox they are
7/8 X 1 1/8 X 1/2" if that's any help. You will also need a seal. Unfortunately the shaft was damaged from bearing failure which meant a shaft repair.
Good luck

 

[Minerva]

how about fixing a MTB brake disk around the rudder shaft with a hydraulic brake calliper suitably mounted down below and associated lever in the cockpit...?

More than enough power, able to fine tune any angle you want, will not corrode or be affected due to the environment and a voile strap around the lever will keep the lock on and the 6mm hose will be easy to route up through the binnacle without too many sweaty words being uttered....

I'd be inclined to go for Hope over Shimano for the availability of spares and Shimano brakes the seals tend to go after a year or two

 

[Kelpie]

how about fixing a MTB brake disk around the rudder shaft with a hydraulic brake calliper suitably mounted down below and associated lever in the cockpit...?

More than enough power, able to fine tune any angle you want, will not corrode or be affected due to the environment and a voile strap around the lever will keep the lock on and the 6mm hose will be easy to route up through the binnacle without too many sweaty words being uttered....

I'd be inclined to go for Hope over Shimano for the availability of spares and Shimano brakes the seals tend to go after a year or two

Haha great minds think alike.
I had exactly that thought myself after seeing a kit in Decathlon. It's quite a long run from the rudder shaft to the pedestal because we're centre cockpit. So I don't think an off the shelf kit would have a long enough brake cable or pipe. But probably doable.

 

[Kelpie]

If you are using the hydrovane you are going to need to adjust the rudder offset easily from the wheel. I would have thought that it was essential to have that available at the wheel, not elsewhere. In addition, there will be times when you want to take over the helm. You need to be able to unlock it at the helm.
I have just replaced the bearings in one of my Whitlock gearboxes. The bearings are imperial as you would expect. In my gearbox they are
7/8 X 1 1/8 X 1/2" if that's any help. You will also need a seal. Unfortunately the shaft was damaged from bearing failure which meant a shaft repair.
Good luck

Thanks. I think the bearing is indeed imperial, 1*2*0.25", if I'm reading the numbers on it correctly.
I agree the steering lock has to be instantly accessible from the helm. Possibly not on the pedestal itself but next to the AH head would be good enough, I think.

 

[Minerva]

Haha great minds think alike.
I had exactly that thought myself after seeing a kit in Decathlon. It's quite a long run from the rudder shaft to the pedestal because we're centre cockpit. So I don't think an off the shelf kit would have a long enough brake cable or pipe. But probably doable.

Hose pipe can be bought by the meter - Goodridge Mountain Bike MTB Brake Hose for Goodridge Fitting Sold Per Metre | eBay

Other suppliers are available, this was just the first return on an eBay search.

 

[Kelpie]

It's definitely a 2*1" bearing. Now to get the wee b*gger out... ?

 

[Kelpie]

Whilst I'm ordering the bearings, I'd better check the rest of the system.

Trouble is, I can't get inside the pedestal leg itself. The bottom is just welded shut, and the top has four headless fixings. Looking at all the Whitlock/Lewmar information I can find online, my pedestal doesn't match anything.

Any ideas?? Is it possible that these four fixings once had heads and they've all sheared off at some point? Seems very unlikely, you'd think whatever gorilla did that might have stopped after the second or third one...

 

[geem]

Whilst I'm ordering the bearings, I'd better check the rest of the system.

Trouble is, I can't get inside the pedestal leg itself. The bottom is just welded shut, and the top has four headless fixings. Looking at all the Whitlock/Lewmar information I can find online, my pedestal doesn't match anything.

Any ideas?? Is it possible that these four fixings once had heads and they've all sheared off at some point? Seems very unlikely, you'd think whatever gorilla did that might have stopped after the second or third one...

If itmis like mine, there is a circlip on the outside behind a collar that has 4 Allenheads bolts it in place. Once you remove the circlip you push the shaft in to remove the gear

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I have a centre cockpit with rod steering. If adjusted correctly you don’t need to lock anything as there is no back lash in the gears. If the bevel gears are worn, no amount of shimming will address this. If you have bevel boxes (right angle gear box), then there are shims inside these as well, behind the cover plates, each side. Sometimes play can be pulled out the system by adjusting torque tubes, usually the rod end has a thread on it.

10 degree of play is a lot and I would be very reluctant to commit to a big voyage with that amount of slop in the system, A similar system failed on Peter Lawless’s (son of Pat Lawless in the GGR) about where you are, after sailing from Ireland, his issue, IIRC, was the pedestal bevel gears. Google him, he has a blog where he describes. Cool bloke and very helpful, so drop him a line. If the system is worn, these long voyages exploit the weakness ruthlessly.

In my view, take it all apart and rebuild it. A hassle but the bevels in the steering pedestal look dry, even though there is a bit of grease.

This may not be applicable, I have 2 universal joints in my system and a so called pillow block bearing. I found 1 x UJ and the pillow block very stiff. So check everything.

Regarding rudder locks, are there stops for the tiller arm to strike at full turn? If so, I have two blocks that drop in between the stops and tiller arm. They lock the rudder very well and are easy to insert and remove. Originally they were for hanging off a drogue to prevent the rudder being forced off centre. That’s got to be easier than disc brakes. If you think that conditions are such that you need to move quickly, the blocks are not going to be in.

 

[Kelpie]

@RunAgroundHard funnily enough I've actually met Peter, his boat was on the same pontoon as us last winter. Probably a bit hard to chat to him now as I believe he's somewhere near the Canaries!

The lack of grease in the photo is because I removed most of it so that I could see what was going on in there. The bevels look good to my untrained eye, although I think I need to take out a shim.

I do have solid rudder stops. Accessing the stub tiller involves disassembling the bed. No problem on long passages since we don't sleep in the saloon whilst at sea, but not handy the rest of the time.

I've not been massively concerned about the play in the steering, but perhaps I should be. We have some very long passages coming up. At least we have plenty of steering options- below decks autopilot, emergency tiller, and the Hydrovane (with a tiller pilot). But it's daft to set out with a known defect.

 

[Kelpie]

If itmis like mine, there is a circlip on the outside behind a collar that has 4 Allenheads bolts it in place. Once you remove the circlip you push the shaft in to remove the gear

Hopefully all will become apparent once I get the wheel off.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm trying to cast a critical eye over the whole steering system. There's a small amount of play in the other gearbox too. I've opened it up and it's a different type of bearing. I don't know if it'll show up in the photos but the balls sit in the shoulder of the shaft.
I'm less confident replacing this bearing, as it's not a simple flat disc. Not quite sure how to even measure up...

 

[Supertramp]

I have a similar Whitlock system with rods and gearboxes. Agree with all the comments and suggestions.

One of the first things I fitted to the boat was a small cleat that let's me loop a piece of bungee elastic over the wheel rim to hold it in one position. The significance is that it allows some flexing and reduces the continual jarring of the gears and rods if the system is rigidly locked at the wheel. Invaluable to me as a quick way to hold the wheel in place without engaging autopilot and when at anchor.

 

[geem]

I have a similar Whitlock system with rods and gearboxes. Agree with all the comments and suggestions.

One of the first things I fitted to the boat was a small cleat that let's me loop a piece of bungee elastic over the wheel rim to hold it in one position. The significance is that it allows some flexing and reduces the continual jarring of the gears and rods if the system is rigidly locked at the wheel. Invaluable to me as a quick way to hold the wheel in place without engaging autopilot and when at anchor.

Is interesting to note the differences in various Whitlock systems. Mine has a large cast iron gearbox adjacent to rudder shaft that is a 3:1 reduction gearbox. The rest of the shaft drive consists on a Plummer block, three way gearbox to handle the rotary drive autopilot motor then the bevel gearbox at the base of the pedestal. Due to the 3:1 reduction gearbox close to the rudder, we don't really need to lock the wheel at anchor. It doesn't move. Being a barn door rudder some 6ft long it would be hard to move without the reduction gearbox.