Lock Keepers are they really a luxury?

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Aquafan

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I would be interested to know to what extent the Govt subsidises the non tidal Thames and importantly the breakdown of where the money goes.
It was inferred on another thread that us the boaters don’t deserve any subsidy and that we are going the right way to lose all our lock keepers to which I would take exception after all the Thames is the countries premier river and should be given the status and respect it deserves.
So how much do the lock keepers cost? .. well there are 45 locks and say 45 lock keepers at an annual cost of say 2 million less I think 50% which is charged to another govt division to pay for the lock keepers to manage the weirs and river levels and reduce the risk of flooding. B1 can straighten my numbers out but the point here is the cost of retaining lock keepers isn’t that high.
I for one value our lock keepers they do a great job without much thanks. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue at most locks on a hot bank holiday week end? The big pleasure boats would be in a real mess. Lock keepers keep us all safe particularly hire boats .. I could go on.
 
Aquafan said:
the Thames is the countries premier river and should be given the status and respect it deserves.
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Agreed a real gem... perhaps it should be regarded as national park, athough aprt from Runnymeade all the real history of consequence is on the salty bit.


Excellent and valid question, might be worth bearing in mind that it appears on most other rivers/navigations the weirs were automated with oversight from central control room , years ago.
Suspect there is very long tail of pensions liabilities , not just the current wage bill.

However ...
Care to explain to a JAM just about anywhere in up North , when they are experiencing cuts in health, education and services for the elderly as to why they should be paying for somebody in uniform to take your ropes on the odd hot weekend you decide to take your boat for quick spin.
If you could convince them,you most certainly could convince me. :)
 
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I believe they (not the EA) did automate Caversham weir some years ago which was a complete failure and I heard resulted in all the gates being lifted in the middle of the night with dire consequences as you can imagine. If you believe in miracles and the Govt were persuaded to invest and automate the weirs then my guess is they would outsource the maintenance of the systems and pay more than it costs to keep the lock keepers employed.
As to whether our friends up North would support the employment of lock keepers on the Thames probably not but then there are lots of projects that many down South would not want their taxes used for eg is HS2 worth the money but you can't look at it like that although I do take your point.
The country should value it's heritage and be prepared to pay for it
What do you really think the Thames would look like after a few years of no lock keepers, it's the thin end of the wedge. If we are not careful we will end up with many stretches
unnavigable with liveaboards everywhere, less boats, less hire boats, Marina's would struggle and pleasure boats will give up etc etc
 
Do understand the point that the Thames is liquid history and the lock keepers are a concern for boaters but only for locals.
Not sure HS2 is a good argument.The link could be of benefit to the entire country and it might be worth remembering that the money spent on Crossrail (where might that be ?) is 4 times the entire budget being spent on the upgrading lines in the rest of the UK...and two of those have been cancelled.

As for ......
What do you really think the Thames would look like after a few years of no lock keepers,

Just like every/any other UK waterway with locks and weirs on the navigation ?
 
oldgit said:
Do understand the point that the Thames is liquid history and the lock keepers are a concern for boaters but only for locals.
Not sure HS2 is a good argument.The link could be of benefit to the entire country and it might be worth remembering that the money spent on Crossrail (where might that be ?) is 4 times the entire budget being spent on the upgrading lines in the rest of the UK...and two of those have been cancelled.

As for ......
What do you really think the Thames would look like after a few years of no lock keepers,

Just like every/any other UK waterway with locks and weirs on the navigation ? [/QUOTE]

Aye, and that's the rub -
If it weren't for the lockies and their distinct personalities, we would have migrated out bit of tin onto the canals where it properly functions.
However, there were still some 'personalities' around full of river lore and local information that made transiting to our rightful ditch more than just pleasant and we stayed suffering a considerable financial penalty thereby..


If folks got off their moorings and actually used the River in their droves as in days of yore -

insert here a photo of Boulter's in 190x chock full of punts (I said Punts), then I maintain EA might take some notice.
Until then what's the point of changing an agreed roster because - heaven forbid - the sun's come out?

The Thames Conservancy was a small organisation with a narrow view - being narrow it could focus on what was needed, now it's part of an huge amorphous, vague, government body which is constantly chasing its tail with huge issues - too large to bother about the occasional dissatisfied boater.

Its thanks to some previous managers who did care about the use of the River, that 'we' have the facilities that we enjoy today - 'electric' lockgear available 24/7 or until some pratt ignores the clearly (?) printed instructions and locks the system.


So get you boat out this coming weekend, parade round Windsor and show EA that you care.......
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Many of the lock and weir keeping staff are similar vintage to many old-school time served Thames boaters - mentioning no names.

It is inevitable that we will both eventually disappear but I hope we can keep things going until they and us hand over the stewardship of the river to a younger breed. They will be used to self service (although there probably will be fewer of them) but it remains to be seen how funding will match up to the ongoing costs of maintenance.
 
oldgit said:
... aprt from Runnymeade all the real history of consequence is on the salty bit.
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Kingston where all the kings were crowned. Hampton Court with its palace. Windsor, home of Kings and Queens for centuries. Reading once the capital of England, and site of Viking/Saxon and Civil War battles. Oxford with its Colleges. Much more besides.
Everywhere you pass on the non tidal Thames has real history of consequence.
 
AuntyRinum said:
Kingston where all the kings were crowned. Hampton Court with its palace. Windsor, home of Kings and Queens for centuries. Reading once the capital of England, and site of Viking/Saxon and Civil War battles. Oxford with its Colleges. Much more besides.
Everywhere you pass on the non tidal Thames has real history of consequence.
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Yes and Oldgit has Chatham and Rochester. for his sins
 
Aquafan said:
I would be interested to know to what extent the Govt subsidises the non tidal Thames and importantly the breakdown of where the money goes.
It was inferred on another thread that us the boaters don’t deserve any subsidy and that we are going the right way to lose all our lock keepers to which I would take exception after all the Thames is the countries premier river and should be given the status and respect it deserves.
So how much do the lock keepers cost? .. well there are 45 locks and say 45 lock keepers at an annual cost of say 2 million less I think 50% which is charged to another govt division to pay for the lock keepers to manage the weirs and river levels and reduce the risk of flooding. B1 can straighten my numbers out but the point here is the cost of retaining lock keepers isn’t that high.
I for one value our lock keepers they do a great job without much thanks. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue at most locks on a hot bank holiday week end? The big pleasure boats would be in a real mess. Lock keepers keep us all safe particularly hire boats .. I could go on.[/QUOTE

To answer your question, I've dug out the last annual budget with headline numbers I had access to from 15/16 so you get a flavour:

All in £millions
Income Budget
Boat registration and charges 4.0
Moorings and landing rent 0.8
Other navigation income 0.5
Water resources 0.7
Government grant in aid 5.7
Total 11.7

Expenditure
Workforce cost 5.0
Maintenance costs and projects 1.0
Capital financing 3.1
Support services 2.6
Total 11.7
Click to expand...
 
It sounds like the budget provides boaters with a very good value for money.

Boaters pay £4 mill, which is probably what it costs to keep the navigation functional.

Another pointless miserable post, when you could just be out boating and enjoying yourself :cool:
 
No Regrets said:
It sounds like the budget provides boaters with a very good value for money.

Boaters pay £4 mill, which is probably what it costs to keep the navigation functional.

Another pointless miserable post, when you could just be out boating and enjoying yourself :cool:
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giphy.gif
 
Thanks Crusty, thats a subsidy of £750.00 PA of the 8000 odd boaters on the Thames, for around another £2.00 a day you could all go boating with clear conscience ........ :):):)
For £3.00 a day could employ a few more lockeepers as well ?
 
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oldgit said:
Thanks Crusty, thats a subsidy of £750.00 PA of the 8000 odd boaters on the Thames, for around another £2.00 a day you could all go boating with clear conscience ........ :):):)
For £3.00 a day could employ a few more lockeepers as well ?
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Correction, for the average rower paying £19 a boat per year, they could start actually contributing to the river...
 
The EA define the minimum chargeable area for a powered launch as 5 square metres at £19.60 per square metre i.e. £98, so are giving the rowing launches a hell of a discount!

Interestingly, the latest newsletter received from the ATYC today, states that according to the EA, some 2,000 boats have not yet renewed their annual license fee for 2018...

With the above two facts in mind, perhaps people can understand my comments elsewhere about all river users paying their fair share.
 
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