Location of gas solenoid shut off

P

PembrokeshirePromise

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Mar 2005
Messages
844
Location
Pembrokeshire !
Visit site
Sorry to bring gas up again ...

Does a solenoid valve have to be fitted within the gas locker itself (personally I wanted to fit it just outside - thinking being I'd rather keep electrics and sparks outside the locker) - but corgi enginner says it must be in locker in its own box - which presents some fitting difficulties (tight on space).

I've searched and searched and can't find a definitve reference - which suggests to me there is no regulation covering this.

Also the lockers are under a stern seat (which forms the lid to the gas box - properly lipped so as to be weather tight , big external drain etc - but the lid is not gas tight - again my understanding was that the box needed venting above the height of the valve / bottle - but he's trying to say we need to fit another sealable lid.

And before anyone says - yes I have looked at the calor site - and yes the insurers are asking for certificate

Thanks
 
Oh dear...

These Corgi people seem to create their own rules. As far as the Boat Safety Scheme rules are concerned, there wouldn't seem to be a problem having the solenoid valve outside the locker, or having a lid which isn't gas-tight. However, unless you want to look for a more clued-up Corgi man, it might be easier to pander to his whims so you get a certificate sooner rather than later.
 
Re: Oh dear...

Thanks - yes I couldn't see anything in that doc either.

I have been pandering (for almost a year now believe it or not). Trouble is he changes his mind from one visit to the next - and so never actually does anything.

And yes - I'd love to find another one - but can't find one in thsi part of the world. Considering driving down the south coast and kidnapping one at this rate. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I think you are both wrong! (You and Mr Corgi that is. Not PVB...he got here before me!)

My understanding is that it should be fitted inside the locker as near as possible to the bottles (but I may be wrong on that). However it should NOT need to be in another box if inside the locker.

See here. If you look at page 16 you'll see that a solenoid valve is NOT regarded as a source of ignition.

The rest of the leaflet may answer your other questions. I would suggest that you show it to the engineer but I don't think Corgi engineers can read; they are just trained to suck teeth and charge another few quid every few minutes. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I hope it helps! Hopefully I managed to avoid the need for a Corgi engineer by getting my surveyor to OK the system without recommending getting an "expert" in to check it out.
 
If the solenoid valve is on the high pressure side of the regulator then it must be inside the locker but like others I cannot see any requirement for it to be so if it is on the lp side.
 
A CE or BS marked gas solonoid if fitted should be installed in the gas locker. As for the lid, the gas box should be gas tight to a hight of the hightest high pressure fitting, be that the bottle, regulator, or any high pressure piping. with exception to the drain overboard
 
Where does it say that?

[ QUOTE ]
A CE or BS marked gas solonoid if fitted should be installed in the gas locker.

[/ QUOTE ] Out of interest, where does it say that in the BSS?
 
OK - Lets take this one in order of priority shall we?

1. You have already been in contact with your insurers so you will have a 'Name' that you can contact. - Contact that name - if he/she can't help - they will know a "man who can" (sorry for being sexist - but it's a good sound bite!)

2. Electrical Solenoid Gas Shut Off Valves are very nice and handy BUT DO NOT REPLACE THE MANDATORY MANUAL GAS SHUT-OFF VALVES - they are in addition to - and never replace the ACTUAL GAS SHUT OFF VALVE (see the CEE regulations)

3. Electrical / hydraulic or other remotely controlled systems are purely fitted for your convenience AND FOR NO OTHER REASON.

4. To precis the Electrical requirements within an area of explosion - no systems are allowed which have not been certificated by both the inspecting GAS and ELECTRICAL engineers. (i.e. 2 certificates of compliance)

5. In regard to maritime usage - BOTH inspecting engineers must have International Certificates accredited by the IMO and be so named and so certificated by that Authorityand will jointly and severally provide subsequent schematic diagrams pertaining to YOUR vessel only. (Schematics would normally be expected to charged at Euro 80 to 560 per A4 sheet depending upon complexity). (A3 / A2 / A1 / A0 pro rata)

6. The definite reference is contained within CE legislation which is also applicable to UK law in tota for the purposes of global harmonisation. (Refer www. EC - I had to, so you can take the same time and trouble)

7.I am sorry to state that your understanding is faulty in gas flow physics in respect of Butane and/or Propane which I presume are the gas supplies you wish to use.

8. If any remotely controlled solenoid device were to be fittedc WITHIN THE GAS ENCLOSURE it would be required to be itself wholly and completeley and to include any and all interfacing connections and electrical control cables completely within a structure which is of itself GAS ISOLATED - IF WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE GAS SUPPLY AREA.

9. Ithink I would give your 'Happy Chappy GAZ Chappy' the heave-ho ... and find somebody who can read (and understand) the LadyBird book of Gas installations.

regards

brian (It's good enough for Jazz and I can't be bothered to correct it for spelling mistakes - OK?
 
I'm not sure where you get all that from. You may well be right for IMO purposes, but all he is after is a Corgi Certificate to satisfy the requirements of his Insurance Company.

The BSS bumph makes it clear that a suitable solenoid valve is NOT regarded as a source of ignition, so it doesn't need to be in a separate box to satisfy BSS requirements.

This could end up like a Col regs discussion! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
On the other hand this is the diagram that was published in PBO in Jan 2002. It shows the electric shut-off valve, the test point and the bubble leak detector all in the gas locker

363128ec.jpg
 
[ QUOTE ]

2. Electrical Solenoid Gas Shut Off Valves are very nice and handy BUT DO NOT REPLACE THE MANDATORY MANUAL GAS SHUT-OFF VALVES - they are in addition to - and never replace the ACTUAL GAS SHUT OFF VALVE (see the CEE regulations)[ QUOTE ]


Erm, would you care to point out where the original poster suggested a solenoid valve replaced a shut-off valve???

[ QUOTE ]
3. Electrical / hydraulic or other remotely controlled systems are purely fitted for your convenience AND FOR NO OTHER REASON.[ QUOTE ]


Nope, a soleniod shut-off valve is a recognised secondary safety device.

[ QUOTE ]
7.I am sorry to state that your understanding is faulty in gas flow physics in respect of Butane and/or Propane which I presume are the gas supplies you wish to use.[ QUOTE ]


He hasn't stated he has any understanding of gas flow physics (Whatever that is, you wouldn't mean Fluid Mechanics, would you?)

[ QUOTE ]
8. If any remotely controlled solenoid device were to be fittedc WITHIN THE GAS ENCLOSURE it would be required to be itself wholly and completeley and to include any and all interfacing connections and electrical control cables completely within a structure which is of itself GAS ISOLATED - IF WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE GAS SUPPLY AREA.[ QUOTE ]


I love this one, can't figure out what the hell this is supposed to mean.

Yet another irrelevant posting from......... erm, whatsisname....... which is not helpful at all to the original poster.

Would suggest you post in future under the name of Mr. Angry


Hope this helps

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Paul.
 
Read the specs - is it a source of ignition - then it bloody well is a source of ignition - Period - Point - Stop - Fini

Where did I get my information from? - The same bloody place that the government gets it's information from.

The only difference is - if I c**K it up - I get sued - not you!!

So 'I" have to know what the [--word removed--] I'm doing and my information comes direct from the CE (avaialble to everyone on the WWW site.)

regards again

brian
 
Have you read page 16 of the BSS? I posted the link earlier. It clearly states that a solenoid valve is NOT regarded as a source of ignition. As far as I know the BSS is regarded as the definitive guide on what is required for leisure boats in UK. If you know of something that over-rides this then would you post a link so that we can all benefit from your wisdom?

Perhaps you could also post the link to the CE items you are talking about? I, for one, don't know what you are talking about and if I google "CE" and "gas installation" it comes up with 51,000 hits!

I don't understand why you are so uptight about this.
 
Thanks to all who have posted - though I'm not sure I'm any clearer !

I have jsut spoken to the people who sell it (Calor Marine) and they have been through their paperwork and can't see any statement that says where you should put it - or whether its safe to put directly in the gas locker.

Thinking about this a bit more - if I don't use it as my primary shut off - which I'm not intending to - I would still switch off at the bottle when leaving the boat - then seeing as its not required in the regulations I don't see how anyone can tell me where to fit it.

If I don't actually need to have it for the regs - then if I choose to fit one I would have thought I can fit it wherever I please - next to the cooker if I so desired - not that it would be much good there. The only bit of the rules that I could see possibly coming into play is the bit about no more junctions than needed - but that would be stretching a point surely !
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Anyone know of a decent alcohol cooker .....
 
Re: Oh dear...

Be careful - the Boat safety scheme documents vary slightly from the actual BS spec in some areas. It is the BS spec that insurers generally require you to comply with. I found this out to my cost!
 
If that\'s true...

If that's true, it's just another example of how ludicrous this whole "safety" business has become. But, if it ever came to a serious disagreement with an insurance company over compliance with the BSS, I'm confident a Court would rule that anyone following the published BSS rules would be deemed to have complied.
 
It seems obvious that the best place for the solenoid is inside the gas locker. The whole purpose is to restrict the risk of gas leaks to areas upstream of the solenoid(*), so ideally you want all of the pipework between the solenoid and the bottle to be in a self-draining area.

I suspect that if a solenoid were prone to sparking, then it would be pretty dangerous whatever its location, though I would rather that it was somewhere self-draining so that gas buildup was less likely.

(*) Yes, I know, you can get leaks anywhere, but they are unlikely to have severe consequences in areas of pipe that only contain pressurised gas when the gas supply is in use.
 
Mine was fitted (on my last boat) within the gas locker, next to the regulator. On the new boat, it will be fitted within the gas locker, next to the regulator.

This has been agreed with my CORGI installer, who also does the work for the OYT (or what was the OYT).

Sorry to confuse, but maybe help.

Regards

Donald
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top