LM30 or CW28.5?

[richlear]

Hi all,

I am about to buy my first boat which is to be based in NE Scotland. I have narrowed the choice down to a CW28.5 (or some derivative of the CW hull) or an LM30.

I would appreciate your thoughts, but first let me tell you my criteria.

1 - Budget 25K, maybe push to 30K for the right boat (might need to allow some of that for delivery)
2 - Definitely a motor sailer as my wife does not enjoy 'faffing around' with sails all the time
3 - Enclosed steering position for Scottish weather with heater
4 - 'Nice' interior suitable for a couple of nights stay at a time with hot water. There will be two of us plus dog with an occasional third person.

I have read a lot about both these boats and both seem to fulfill the criteria although apparently the CW looks 'a bit like a fishing boat'

So, based on the above, which would you go for & why?

Thanks, much appreciated

rich

 

[Davy_S]

It may pay you to look at boat sales in Holland for the LM yachts, the prices are far better. I have had a sail on one of these, (fin keel). If it is a motor sailer you want, you will not beat the LM. certainly better sailer than the Colvic or Fisher. Although I would not turn my nose up at either!

 

[jwilson]

Hi all,

I am about to buy my first boat which is to be based in NE Scotland. I have narrowed the choice down to a CW28.5 (or some derivative of the CW hull) or an LM30.

I would appreciate your thoughts, but first let me tell you my criteria.

1 - Budget 25K, maybe push to 30K for the right boat (might need to allow some of that for delivery)
2 - Definitely a motor sailer as my wife does not enjoy 'faffing around' with sails all the time
3 - Enclosed steering position for Scottish weather with heater
4 - 'Nice' interior suitable for a couple of nights stay at a time with hot water. There will be two of us plus dog with an occasional third person.

I have read a lot about both these boats and both seem to fulfill the criteria although apparently the CW looks 'a bit like a fishing boat'

So, based on the above, which would you go for & why?

Thanks, much appreciated

rich

Dramatic difference in sailing ability to windward - LM30s much faster except when Colvic Watson motorsailing or motoring (usual mode to windward). As a result I'd much rather have an LM - but I'm not you.

LMs all factory built to a good standard, many CWs are amateur fitouts which can range from truly appalling to superb. Both, in their own ways, sensible boats for northern waters, but you will be very hard pushed to find an all round good condition LM30 at your price range. If motoring or motorsailing going to be your thing you may be better off with finding a good CW with a well looked after reliable engine, which should be achievable in your budget.

 

[Beadle]

Motor sailors are always a compromise and there is a range within that compromise. The Colvic is heavier and more motory. The LM should sail rings around it.

On the other hand the Colvic will have more and better internal space. Its layout - as with all CWs - will be individual rather than the standard layout of the LM so if you don't care for the first CW its worth looking at others.

I've never sailed a LM but I suspect it will roll less than the CW - so may be preferable.

If you can arrange it take her for a test sale - SWMBO as well as

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Mike will be along shortly -Caer Uffa - he has huge experience of the smaller CWs and provides a boat finding service. Your budget will certainly get you a very nice 28 and would get a decent 32 at the top end of your budget. The CW sails very nicely and has a full wheelhouse which from the looks of it the LM doesn't? Either way you'll find CWs and LMs often have very few owners, ours had two from 1977, once you've experienced a good motor sailer you understand why.

I'd also add the Coaster 33 to your list, much less internal volume but boy are they a pretty yacht.

 

[V1701]

Don't know about the CW but have looked over an LM & it was a lovely boat, I think some do & some don't have proper doors to the wheelhouse, or is that the 27? Really good comfortable interior, supposed to sail well, I'd go for that over a CW for better sailing ability, Scandinavian build quality. Don't know if this is relevant but there are a couple of Finnsailer 35s for sale in UK at the moment, asking £25k - they look like great boats, again cheaper if you look to Europe...

 

[Davy_S]

There is a lot of confusion with the measurements of the LMs. The original 27, measured 28.3 Ft, it did not have wheelhouse doors, although a lot of people fitted them, this boat was later produced by Cygnus as a Scanyacht 29, however it did not last long, simply because of the price (everything was an extra) the LM 30 seems to have been produced in Fin and bilge keel, the LM32 is the largest and fastest (not counting the Vitesse) Most of the Danish built boats found their way to Holland and Germany, this is why the prices are more favourable over there. To be honest, they hold their price very well, but some are asking far too much. At the end of the day, you are buying a boat with an engine over 30 years old, this has to be a consideration on price. Myself I would rather have the 27 with the long keel and shaft drive, rather than the fin and skeg with saildrive, if only for a DIY point of view.

 

[richlear]

Thanks to all for your input.

Does anyone have any idea of costs involved bringing a boat over from Europe, bearing in mind the destination is a long way north? (Banff)

It could be a good option for me as I work in Scandinavia so am there regularly

thanks

rich

 

[actionoptics]

LM 30

Our LM 30 , as are all LM 30's, is the same length as a Moody 31, that is 30 feet and 8 to 10 inches. Ours has twin keels. Our previous boat was a Snapdragon 747 with bilge keels and there is a difference. In a decent breeze we can just about keep up with a Moody 31 but in light winds we have to add about 1000 rpm. All LM 30's I have seen have fully enclosed wheelhouse with two central sliding doors and heating ! We are looking for something a bit bigger, say 38 to 39 feet but we are finding it very difficult as the LM has been so good. It is still in the water and being used regularly this winter. Happy hunting.

 

[RAI]

My cousin bought an LM30 in Denmark and sailed it home to Dartmouth. No problems, he even chose to take it through the Dutch canal system as part of the adventure. It's a boat I would recommend, it's very cleverly designed.

 

[richlear]

The trouble is that from somewhere like Copenhagen it is either a 1000km trip south, short N Sea crossing then another 1000km back north again to Aberdeen or a 600km trip directly across the north sea.

I work in the N sea and it is not a place I would like to be on a 30ft boat if the weather turns nasty!

 

[RAI]

I have done it three times, but each time, the long way around the coast, but that was for the fun of visiting places and otherwise mostly day sailing. (plus hiding in harbours waiting for the bad weather to go away.) I met several who preferred the more direct approach, but to be comfortable, they waited on a weather window.

 

[Tranona]

Delivery by road probably around £3k plus lifts and rigging. Similar by sea with professional crew. Easy to get quotes as there are plenty of specialised haulage firms and delivery agents.

For the LM you may find buying in Europe the only way because of the very limited number of the boats originally sold in UK.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

A lot will depend on whether you want an aft cabin. Very few CW28's were built with one, swapping it for an aft cockpit. Almost all CW32s had aft cabins and a central wheelhouse. If you don't want an aft cabin then the LM30 from that picture looks better - I assume it doesn't have an aft cabin??? At 31 feet the LM30 is more comparable with a CW32, a boat I would happily sail across the North Sea in. Any well found LM30 is quite capable of a journey like that, it's only 4 days - many much smaller yachts have crossed the Atlantic and with a journey time of 6 weeks they can hardly pick a weather window!

 

[Caer Urfa]

Hi all,

I am about to buy my first boat which is to be based in NE Scotland. I have narrowed the choice down to a CW28.5 (or some derivative of the CW hull) or an LM30.
So, based on the above, which would you go for & why?
Thanks, much appreciated
rich

Hi Rich

Years ago I did go and look at an LM 28 (later extended to the LM29) and sailed it and although generally a nice boat they do not have the best reputation under sail only where as the LM30 is an excellant sailer.
Also watch out for any that have had an engine change as some have been fitted with smaller but under powered engines.

The LM 28 is also a much lighter motor sailer than a Colvic Watson 28'-6" but nobody buys a Colvic Watson for speed, however I know which one I want to be in if the weather changes for the worse!

Most CW 28'-6" are home built and finished to an good standard, with plenty of room for cruising many including shower,fridge etc., most are 'ketch rigged' although some I have found have been changed to 'sloop rigged'.

However I have sailed all the range of Colvic Watsons and you need to think out what you want,will you be sailing with crew or mainly single handed, also if you want to sail most of the time then look at the aft 'open cockpit version, much easier to sail, however if you want accomidation and a totally enclosed wheelhouse look at the Colvic Watson 28'-6" AC, this has a spacious aft cabin.

If I can help further PM me

Mike

 

[richlear]

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply. I must admit, my preference is for a CW as I appreciate the sea keeping of the design - i just need to convince my wife that it is not a fishing boat!

There is a vessel quite close to us here that I hope to be able to go look at next week to start getting a feel for the various builds and qualities (http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=271266)

Thanks again to all for the most useful responses

Cheers

rich

 

[Caer Urfa]

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply. I must admit, my preference is for a CW as I appreciate the sea keeping of the design - i just need to convince my wife that it is not a fishing boat!

There is a vessel quite close to us here that I hope to be able to go look at next week to start getting a feel for the various builds and qualities (http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=271266)

Thanks again to all for the most useful responses

Cheers

rich

Hi Rich

I know a little about the History of Jeanius PM me or contact me through the CW Owners group site.

Having spent 7 years researching before I wrote the History of the Colvic Watson Motor sailer for the CWOG I can assure your wife the Colvic Watson is no fishing boat design, the myth started by so called expert brokers years ago who say they are based on the Scottish fishing boat.

All Colvic Watsons were based on the design of G L Watsons previous Spey and Norseman class motorsailer and their earlier lifeboat designs (high bow, low midships, high canoe stern), the trawler myth came from the Spey class which were built at famous Jones of Buckie boatyard who is famous for there trawlers and also many early large Colvic Watsons such as the Jura and Veracity class were also profesionally built in Scotland.

Mike