"Liveaboard or Live-a-land"? The financials.

[Infr137]

\"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

All.

I was down the pub chatting to a friend, having on of those "Pint induced" deep conversations the other day. The conversation was based on the financial practicalities of living aboard compared to living on land (owning ur own home).

The scenario was based on living in a 2 bed house with a mortgage of appx £150,000 compared to living in a 1988 31-35 foot yacht (e.g. Moody) owned outright. The liveaboard would be mainly in a marina with occasional coastal cruising. Single person working from home, with two kids/the odd friend coming to stay occasionally.

Closing time left us with several questions, which we were unable to answer. Could any of you please let me have your comments on the following?:

1/ Taking into account regular maintenance & the desire of the owner to keep the boat immacualte. Depreciation of a boat that age, over say a 5-10 yr period?
2/ Situation re. council tax?
3/ Any applicable rates (aside from Marina fees)?
4/ What's the "no fixed abode situation"?
5/ Any tax advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks in advance

R...


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[AndrewB]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

1. Depreciation of a 15 year old yacht costing maybe £50,000 would be quite small provide it is properly maintained, but that will cost more than if you are not living aboard. Living aboard may be impractical during an overhaul, I found it necessary to rent ashore occasionally.

2. If you are not on a residential mooring, generally none. Some useful local authority guidance on this point is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_pn/pn7appd.htm#P4_67/frame.htm>HERE</A>.

3. None. Technically nearly all marinas prohibit liveaboards in their contracts. In practice most (but beware, not all) are happy to turn a blind eye, provided the yacht is kept seaworthy and you are not a 'stirrer'.

4. NFA is definitely a problem. Credit for example - I wasn't allowed to apply for a building society mortgage, and my bank asked me to use a debit rather than a credit card. Even boat and car insurance was a problem - incidentally you may find a no-liveaboard clause in your yacht insurance. GP registration may be tricky, but I haven't tried that. The simple workround is to maintain a 'registered address' with a friend or a local accomodation address. The marina will not be happy if you use theirs.

5. No, you have to be non-resident in the UK for tax breaks and that means positive proof to IR that you are living abroad. Of course, being highly mobile might be an asset for tax-evasion, I wouldn't know ...

 

[cocktail]

Re: "Liveaboard or Live-a-land"? The financials.

This is something I am considering doing in the next two years so any information would be appreciated.

I am also looking to make contact with anyone who has tried this in the past or is currently living aboard to discuss the pros and cons.

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[roly_voya]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

Simple, if you are only thinking it might be a cheaper way of life DONT DO IT the disadvantages will drive you nuts. On the other hand if you yearn for a nomadic liveaboard lifestyle but cant yet make the break from work go for it, I did and love it. The cost means that I can work 2 days a week, sail 4 and still own a 30ft+ yach which I definatly could not afford if I had to keep a house as well.

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[cocktail]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

I am not necessarily thinking it will be a cheaper lifestyle just, apart from winning the lottery, I don't ever see myself being able to afford to have a house and a boat. My intention is to keep working full time if necessary until I retire. This will enable me to sail at weekends and holidays and by the time I retire I would hope to have gained sufficient experience to take off to wherever the notion, or the winds, took me.

What I need to know are the practicialities of living aboard full time. I could possibly list all the advantages but am realistic enough to realise there has to be some disadvantages, such is life.

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[Trevethan]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

My wife and I are now more or less full time liveaboarders and have been for about a year.

She is pretty new to boating and it was a bit of an adjustment.

The main issues are space, comfort and bureaucracy as far as we are concerned.

Our boat is a 44 foot ketch rigged motor sailer, so its a pretty big vessel, which also is a problem.

In terms of space -- storage is at a premium on any boat -- you cant store lots of clothes etc very easily.

We have our winter clothes and outr summer clothes and vacuum pack the ones we aren't going to use, or we store them ashore.

Comfort -- boats aren't that comfortable -- they have a tendency to be cold and damp, smell funny and have lots of awkward places to hit your head or stumble etc.

You need to think about heating the boat, and more importantly, how to ventilate it to get the moisture out. -- It's amazing how much moisture you kick out just by breathing, and if you don't ensure good air circulation this makes life unpleasant and your environment a bit smelly.

In addition to solar vents which sucks a fair bit of air out, we also run a dehumidifier in the winter, or if we leave the boat shut up, but this onky works on shore power. I have seen humidistat driven extractor systems that run off the batteries that claim to do a good job.

The last issue can be a pain, but it can also set you free --

Most marinas do not allow liveabords, but as long as you are discrete, don't make waves, and generally fit in,they will turn a blind eye.

We hen we started we only spent 2 or 3 nights aboard, then would go home. However from last summer, we stayed on the whole time.

This means that council tax, TV licences and so on can be less of a concern.

However, in order to function in the world you do need a permanent address, and ideally one that is nearby to allow access to local services -- GP's and the likes.

The best way to do that is to have friends/family at hand. If they live alone, you registering with them will cost them their single occupancy discount, so you really ought to pay half. However if there are two or more adults living together, there is no cost implication, (but its a nice gesture to contribute!)

As others have said, don't do it to save money. And don't do it if you plan to retire in 10 or more years then sail. Buy a house and flog it /rent it to fund your retirement cruising!

Despite that, I have no plans on retiring anytime soo -- I am only 35, and I am pretty happy with the choices I made. I might have bought a different boat (but you always think that perhaps that other boat you bought might have been less trouble bu it never is, all boats are trouble), but I certainly would not change the lifestyle.

Having said that on a cold dark February morning, and the decks are all iced over and freezing rain is falling, the heating hasn't come on yet, and you need to go fill the bloody water tanks again before you go to work, you sometimes question your sanity.

Best off luck,

Nick


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[Tomsk]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

I'm stuck in the transition face at the moment. I sold my house to purchase the boat - again the only way I was going to achieve it. The overhead cost saving has allowed me to cut my working time down to 3 days with the rest of the week for leisure. Unfortuately I work in Leeds but berth in Fleetwood, Lancs, so daily travel is not an option. I spend 2 or 3 nights a week in lodgings then return home to the boat. Once I find employment nearer to Fleetwood, I will definately live aboard full time.

As for space - mines a Bayliner Mobo < 30 foot. It's amazing what you will learn to tolerate in order to improve leisure, pleasure and quality in life!

Go for it...

<hr width=100% size=1>Tomsk -

What the hell... it's only money!

 

[pragmatist]

Highly recommended

We have lived aboard our boat in the UK for several summers, and some bits beside - both in a marina and on the River Dart. It most definitely saves money - electricity bills radically reduced, even using what was expensive marina electricity, cost of fuel for vehicle again much less if you can use a dinghy/dory & outboard to get your shopping (and it's so much pleasanter). We also saved on maintenance because being there all the time it was easier to fit jobs in so we paid others less.

We found that each circumstance needed modifications. For example, on a full tide berth on the river we could run the engine for hot water for showers. In a mud berth this wasn't an option. After my first cold shower in an unheated shower block in early April we fitted an immersion heater.

Fully agree with the post about heating and ventilation but can't recommend our diesel heater more highly. The Dickinson has a small inline pump but could be gravity fed if you had room - it produces about 5kw and has a chimney so we get wonderful dry heat and if you open a hatch or two the boat dries out amazingly. It can be a bit warm in spring/autumn but it's cheap to run so we just open more hatches.

Depends if you like the lifestyle - bad weather and lack of space are the only downsides as far as we're concerned but a full cockpit cover helped with the former and the latter you just have to get used to (or buy a bigger boat which we don't wish to do). We run a full computer network so we can work - that doesn't help the space but this year's addition is wireless networking and keyboard/mouse so we can stop tripping over the wires !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

 

[Alastairdent]

Re: \"Liveaboard or Live-a-land\"? The financials.

I liveaboard -mostly by myself, but part of week with 2 small kids, and part of week with gf.

Can echo some of the comments here about smells, funny corners and storage. I've just upgraded from a 32ft narrowboat (tiny and cramped) to a 50ft dutch barge, which I motored up from Limehouse to York. Not so cramped anymore, but lots of shoddy electrics and plumbing to sort.

DON'T even contemplate it unless you feel competent to do your own basic maint - this is ongoing with a liveaboard.

It is vastly cheaper than owning a house, or even renting one. However, it is very, very unlikely that your boat is appreciate in value, unlike a house.

Re: liveaboard insurance - try Euromarine. Sorted me out ok.

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[robind]

Re: "Liveaboard or Live-a-land"? The financials.

Hi! How handy (maintenence capable) are you? Have you thought of increasing your mortgage (and work commitment, in the short term) purchasing a boat that needs some work. Move aboard and rent out the house?
Just a thought!
Regards

Rob


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