Liveaboard in EU and tax residency implications of having a berthing / permanent

[JohnSmith1234]

Hi all,

Those of you who live aboard 50-100% time, if you live aboard a yacht that is berthed somewhere , can you become a tax resident in that country?

Consider the following scenario:

Citizen of country Y and (tax) resident of country X (which happens to be a tax haven) and having a birth rented in country Z and spending say a few months a year there. Can tax authorities of country Z suddenly claim you are their tax resident and owe them disclosure + money? And if so, would spending 2-3 months in one country and then moving on elsewhere in the EU help?

Trying to consider scenarios of living in the Mediterranean , but quite a few countries there are preferable to avoid becoming tax resident of. Talking about actually living on the boat about 50-80%, so close to full-time and definitely above 182 days a year.

I am not looking for tax advice, but would just like to get people 's experience on the matter. Thanks.

Will gladly chat with some people with experience. Can offer payment for cool tips. Thanks

 

[greeny]

I think you will need to give more information before the questions you ask can be answered.
For example - What countries are X Y Z. What is your residence going to be after Brexit. Are these countries in Europe or outside.
Each country in Europe can operate in very different ways and their interpretation of the rules can be somewhat different to EU guidelines.
If outside Europe then dual taxation agreements come into play.
Good luck.

 

[nortada]

Hi all,

Those of you who live aboard 50-100% time, if you live aboard a yacht that is berthed somewhere , can you become a tax resident in that country?

Consider the following scenario:

Citizen of country Y and (tax) resident of country X (which happens to be a tax haven) and having a birth rented in country Z and spending say a few months a year there. Can tax authorities of country Z suddenly claim you are their tax resident and owe them disclosure + money? And if so, would spending 2-3 months in one country and then moving on elsewhere in the EU help?

Trying to consider scenarios of living in the Mediterranean , but quite a few countries there are preferable to avoid becoming tax resident of. Talking about actually living on the boat about 50-80%, so close to full-time and definitely above 182 days a year.

I am not looking for tax advice, but would just like to get people 's experience on the matter. Thanks.

Will gladly chat with some people with experience. Can offer payment for cool tips. Thanks

A question, why would anybody want to volunteer to become a tax resident?

Many people I know take active measures to avoid that situation. Although, there is a treaty between Portugal and the UK, which prevents double jeopardy and the risk of being taxed twice on the same income.

Depending on your nationality and circumstances Brexit and Schengen could play a large part.

That said, I agree with greeny, the questions you ask are very country specific, so without an accurate idea of your proposed itinerary, the countries involved and your circumstances (nationality/residency) an answer is not possible.

Your offer of money for ‘cool tips’ is new to me. It not in the ethos of these forums, where we all help each other free so I find it a little unsettling.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Here a cool tips free of charge , although happy to except the odd beer if we cross paths.
Don't try and play the tax game unless your loaded and got people who know what hey doing, it not only a mine field but a major stress most can do without .
I find as a full time liveaboard ( Cruiser) but not in any one country I just pay what I own in the UK and that way I am left alone to enjoy my choose of life, plus it keep me tied to the UK if even I need to return one day .

 

[nortada]

Here a cool tips free of charge , although happy to except the odd beer if we cross paths.
Don't try and play the tax game unless your loaded and got people who know what hey doing, it not only a mine field but a major stress most can do without .
I find as a full time liveaboard ( Cruiser) but not in any one country I just pay what I own in the UK and that way I am left alone to enjoy my choose of life, plus it keep me tied to the UK if even I need to return one day .

Think we are all making the assumption that John is a Brit?

If he is not, this changes the whole scenario and very few of us are in a position to provide much advice.

 

[Irish Rover]

Here a cool tips free of charge , although happy to except the odd beer if we cross paths.
Don't try and play the tax game unless your loaded and got people who know what hey doing, it not only a mine field but a major stress most can do without .
I find as a full time liveaboard ( Cruiser) but not in any one country I just pay what I own in the UK and that way I am left alone to enjoy my choose of life, plus it keep me tied to the UK if even I need to return one day .

That's good advice regardless of what nationality the OP has. As a general rule, tax is payable wherever the income is earned and if you have enough income to make it worth your while even thinking about this do as Vic says and engage a professional.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A lot of us liveaboard started off with the thought of not having to pay the tax man and finding ways around it , but quickly we learn the lesson there isn't a way around it unless we was in a position where money no object in which case you just pay someone to deal with it .
I remember talking to my old accountant once about it and he laughsd and just shocked his head , he followed that by saying when you add a few more zeros on to your income , ask again and I put you onto someone .

 

[Tony Cross]

I doubt that anyone on here can reliably answer your questions, you'd need to consult tax advisers in countries X, Y and Z to be sure. Assuming country X is a tax haven, as you suggested, then one would assume that you already have access to a tax adviser....

I do know that within the EU, if you reside (remain) in any EU country for more than 183 days in a year you are automatically considered to be tax resident there. That doesn't however mean that you will have to pay taxes there, it all depends on your circumstances. In Greece for example, I know of several citizens of the UK who live full-time in Greece. They pay tax in the UK but submit tax declarations in Greece (as they are required to do) that show that they have no taxable assets in Greece, earn no income in Greece, and thus have no taxes to pay in Greece. The Greek tax office is happy with this, but this will likely vary from country to country even within the EU.

 

[nortada]

I do know that within the EU, if you reside (remain) in any EU country for more than 183 days in a year you are automatically considered to be tax resident there. That doesn't however mean that you will have to pay taxes there, it all depends on your circumstances. In Greece for example, I know of several citizens of the UK who live full-time in Greece. They pay tax in the UK but submit tax declarations in Greece (as they are required to do) that show that they have no taxable assets in Greece, earn no income in Greece, and thus have no taxes to pay in Greece. The Greek tax office is happy with this, but this will likely vary from country to country even within the EU.

Tony,

Portugal is exactly the same as you quote for Greece.

 

[Irish Rover]

I read the other day Denmark announced that companies registered in tax havens are not eligible for Covid 19 state aid programs - bravo Denmark.

 

[PlanB]

Think we are all making the assumption that John is a Brit?

If he is not, this changes the whole scenario and very few of us are in a position to provide much advice.

And John has also posted on the Motor Boat Forum in a way which had already made me wonder.

 

[Graham376]

As said above, don't see how we can give sensible information if he doesn't give more details.

 

[Irish Rover]

As said above, don't see how we can give sensible information if he doesn't give more details.

Actually he got the most sensible advice possible - consult a professional (and stop looking for cheap skate advice on the internet)

 

[DownWest]

British client became non tax resident in UK, by moving to Monaco. Then moved out of there. He has(had) houses in two EU countries and the US. Very careful to avoid staying in one country over the limit for tax liabilities. Def plenty of loot and had the best advice. I often had to talk to Liechenstein about stuff.

 

[JohnSmith1234]

A question, why would anybody want to volunteer to become a tax resident?

Many people I know take active measures to avoid that situation. Although, there is a treaty between Portugal and the UK, which prevents double jeopardy and the risk of being taxed twice on the same income.

Depending on your nationality and circumstances Brexit and Schengen could play a large part.

That said, I agree with greeny, the questions you ask are very country specific, so without an accurate idea of your proposed itinerary, the countries involved and your circumstances (nationality/residency) an answer is not possible.

Your offer of money for ‘cool tips’ is new to me. It not in the ethos of these forums, where we all help each other free so I find it a little unsettling.

Of course I was asking about becoming tax resident *involuntarily*
On the money, see another reply criticising me for trying to get free advice. Cannot make everyone happy....

Think we are all making the assumption that John is a Brit?

If he is not, this changes the whole scenario and very few of us are in a position to provide much advice.

Non-UK citizen / resident

Actually he got the most sensible advice possible - consult a professional (and stop looking for cheap skate advice on the internet)

Thanks, I am here to get people's tips from their experience, not to be told to ask consultants charging hundreds of dollars per hour.

 

[sailaboutvic]

John your not going to make many friends like that .
Everyone that answered are liveaboard or been liveboard , and looking at the replies all have been quite open with you .

 

[nortada]

Of course I was asking about becoming tax resident *involuntarily*
On the money, see another reply criticising me for trying to get free advice. Cannot make everyone happy....


Non-UK citizen / resident

Thanks, I am here to get people's tips from their experience, not to be told to ask consultants charging hundreds of dollars per hour.

John just to be absolutely certain your not a UK citizen but hold UK residency

Clearly you do not hold a UK passport.

As The UK is not in the Schengen Zone, unless you plan to spend time in the UK,as a Liveaboard I can’t see what benefit there is in holding UK residencyMust admit I am not sure that UK residency even exists, but as a UK citizen, why should I know

Regret but without greater detail, I can’t see how we cruiser/liveaboards/long-term-visitors or expats can be much use to you. Just so you are aware, the 4 categories stated have different approaches to life out of the UK.

 

[Irish Rover]

[QUOTE
Thanks, I am here to get people's tips from their experience, not to be told to ask consultants charging hundreds of dollars per hour.
[/QUOTE]
We didn't give you tips. We gave you sound advice based on experience. Anyway, you stick with free taxation tips on the internet and I'll await your next thread looking for free insolvency or legal advice.

 

[Tony Cross]

Thanks, I am here to get people's tips from their experience, not to be told to ask consultants charging hundreds of dollars per hour.

TBH unless you find someone on here who is a tax lawyer or a tax accountant with relevant experience then anything that anyone tells you is not going to be cast in stone and certainly isn't advice that you should make any financial or lifestyle decisions from.

In my experience as a liveaboard in Greece, and now a full time resident ashore, much of the 'advice' I received in the early days from other Greek liveaboards, and even from long term residents who'd been here for years, turned out to be wrong. Greece in particular quite often changes the systems, so something that was true last year is different this year. I'm guessing that other European countries (especially southern European countries) might well be the same. That's why it's essential that for major decisions you need the advice of someone who really does know what he's talking about - even if that costs you. FWIW a local Greek accountant will charge you only a few tens of Euros for the kind of advice you're looking for as it relates to Greece.