Live AIS receiver v Boat Beacon?

[ffiill]

If you live and sail in busy coastal waters I can see the use of a live AIS receiver.
However if like me most of your sailing is done in waters sparsly populated by boats is there any point?
My internet based Boat Beacon happily works on my smart phone with minimal speed data down loads from mobile transmitters.
Not that its much needed in the Inner Sound north of the Kyle of Lochalsh.
Today I counted six targets of which three were a bouy,Rhona lighthouse and the shore based Royal Naval sub station north of Plockton.
One ship at sea,the Raasay ferry and a dive boat anchored near the Kyle.
Given that all of the busy coastal waters are well served by mobile reception is there any need at all for live ship to ship AIS for leisure craft?
Server failure; mobile transmitter failure?-I would guess far less likely than ship transponder failure; onboard computer failure??

 

[fireball]

For informational, no I couldn't see the justification of having live AIS receiver over boat beacon (or similar).

But if you were interested in actively using it for collision warnings or any other navigational aid then I wouldn't - the data is based on what is received by shore based stations - which may or may not be online - there may be a blind spot, the data could be (and in many cases is) delayed and then you're reliant on your mobile and the mobile network.

In busy waters like the solent there's not that much point of AIS either - it's a nice to have, but everything you're doing is pilotage and there's enough non-ais boats to avoid without adding in alarms!

Looking at boat beacons other features - transmission of AIS data - that is within the boat beacon network only - handy if you're in an organised group and nice for locating your boat if you leave a device on whilst you're off - but doesn't contribute to collision avoidance like a real AIS transmitter. (I did see you were talking about a receiver - but I think it's a point worth making for other readers benefit)

 

[prv]

Given that all of the busy coastal waters are well served by mobile reception is there any need at all for live ship to ship AIS for leisure craft?

Not much mobile reception in the Channel shipping lanes, which is where I mostly use AIS.

Pete

 

[elton]

I don't see any point in these so-called "AIS" apps. I'm more concerned that large ships will see me rather than me seeing them. Only a real AIS can make that more likely.

 

[[70521]]

A nice to have showing nearest and dearest that you are still afloat and within mobile phone contact, but of zero value to anybody on the water.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Re of zero value.I have boat beacon on my I pad and I checked it against my Vesper AIS.They both displayed the same boats in Felixstowe area (River Orwell).
The Vesper does enable me to do a lot of filtering and gives more information,but Boat Beacon does show a picture of vessels (the larger ones anyway) which the Vesper can't do.
I would always rely on my Vesper but Boat Beacon can be useful if you are aware of the limitations involved.

 

[elton]

Boat Beacon can be useful if you are aware of the limitations involved.

i.e. you're likely to be invisible to virtually all shipping.

 

[fireball]

i.e. you're likely to be invisible to virtually all shipping.

Only on AIS ... some of them run Radar too ... and some even (and you won't believe this) look with their own eyes ....

 

[ditchcrawler]

Boat Beacon is primarily a receiver of AIS.It does not major on transmit of AIS.

 

[sailorman]

If you live and sail in busy coastal waters I can see the use of a live AIS receiver.
However if like me most of your sailing is done in waters sparsly populated by boats is there any point?
My internet based Boat Beacon happily works on my smart phone with minimal speed data down loads from mobile transmitters.
Not that its much needed in the Inner Sound north of the Kyle of Lochalsh.
Today I counted six targets of which three were a bouy,Rhona lighthouse and the shore based Royal Naval sub station north of Plockton.
One ship at sea,the Raasay ferry and a dive boat anchored near the Kyle.
Given that all of the busy coastal waters are well served by mobile reception is there any need at all for live ship to ship AIS for leisure craft?
Server failure; mobile transmitter failure?-I would guess far less likely than ship transponder failure; onboard computer failure??

Try this very busy waterway in conjunction with the ais
http://www.vlissingenwebcam.nl

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/

 

[johnalison]

All forms of AIS are essentially fail-unsafe and can never be relied upon to reveal all dangers. Anyone using AIS for collision avoidance in the open sea ought to be using a ship-based system. For those pottering around the Coast, where collision risks are not a major concern, an app may well be a useful secondary source of data, as well as a source of interest and entertainment. The main thing is not to depend fully on any system.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'm more concerned that large ships will see me rather than me seeing them. Only a real AIS can make that more likely.

A radar transponder is probably a better bet.

 

[elton]

Boat Beacon is primarily a receiver of AIS.It does not major on transmit of AIS.

Sorry, but it isn't a receiver of AIS. It can only send over the internet and receive over the internet whatever happens to have been uploaded, and even that depends on having a phone signal.

 

[ffiill]

Sorry, but it isn't a receiver of AIS. It can only send over the internet and receive over the internet whatever happens to have been uploaded, and even that depends on having a phone signal.

A system like boat beacon receives its signal from a wireless transmission whether wifi or more likely a mobile phone mast.
The received signal is one that has been monitored by a shore station and placed in digital form on the internet on a server database from where it is accessed.
A signal transmitted from a vessels transponder is based oninformation sent to it from a computer data base including data interpolated from satellites.It could be that the data itself might have looped through a shore based server as well.
In my opinion the only difference is where the incoming signal is coming from and the quality of reception.
Boat Beacon by the way will also accept nmea input from an AIS engine which it displays on google maps.
If I want to know what the big ship is and where its heading so as to keep out of its way particularly in busy inshore waters then a system like boat beacon is just as reliable as an AIS receiver.
I am just in my old age coming to the conclusion that men just love gadgets whether its for sailing,the motor,your camera etc etc and we convince ourselves of its necessity.

 

[elton]

A system like boat beacon receives its signal from a wireless transmission whether wifi or more likely a mobile phone mast.
The received signal is one that has been monitored by a shore station and placed in digital form on the internet on a server database from where it is accessed.
A signal transmitted from a vessels transponder is based oninformation sent to it from a computer data base including data interpolated from satellites.It could be that the data itself might have looped through a shore based server as well.
In my opinion the only difference is where the incoming signal is coming from and the quality of reception.
Boat Beacon by the way will also accept nmea input from an AIS engine which it displays on google maps.
If I want to know what the big ship is and where its heading so as to keep out of its way particularly in busy inshore waters then a system like boat beacon is just as reliable as an AIS receiver.
I am just in my old age coming to the conclusion that men just love gadgets whether its for sailing,the motor,your camera etc etc and we convince ourselves of its necessity.

OK I know exactly how it works thanks. How does a ship with a normal, internationally standardardised, run-of-the mill AIS system see a boat that's using Boat Beacon, and Boat Beacon alone?

 

[BelleSerene]

For me, safety is about equipping myself to know what's around so I can take evasive action. Just being seen by others and assuming they are going to move - particularly if they're a tanker - isn't safety. So for AIS the Rx is much more important than the Tx.

Ref the boat beacon and other apps using (time-lagged) signals over a mobile phone network, if it doesn't work in the middle of the Channel or the North Sea where the big ships are, it's a toy not a tool.

 

[sailorman]

For me, safety is about equipping myself to know what's around so I can take evasive action. Just being seen by others and assuming they are going to move - particularly if they're a tanker - isn't safety. So for AIS the Rx is much more important than the Tx.

Ref the boat beacon and other apps using (time-lagged) signals over a mobile phone network, if it doesn't work in the middle of the Channel or the North Sea where the big ships are, it's a toy not a tool.

check out #10
not much time lag there

 

[BelleSerene]

check out #10
not much time lag there

I may be missing something here - please tell me - but

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/p/faq#faq8 Data received are uploaded in the database in real time and therefore they are immediately available on the map and on other pages. However, several positions shown on map may be not continuously refreshed (e.g. when a ship goes out of range). Vessel positions shown on map may be up to 1 hour old. Please note also that map web page is only periodically refreshed or whenever the ‘Refresh now’ link is pressed manually.

 

[Giblets]

check out #10
not much time lag there

Ah, but the windmill isn't showing up on Marinetraffic though!

 

[jerrytug]

A radar transponder is probably a better bet.

+1 and it doesn't need someone fiddling with it or peering at it, a waste of crew resources (in my opinion).
The idea of using the internet for collision avoidance is surreal!