Litigation - following a regata collision. Amorita - Sumurun crash in 2007.

[Zen Zero]

The collision ocurred in 2007, and was widely reported along with news of the suit beng brought. However, I can find no links to the outcome of the court action. Maybe Towbin settled?

Yes the word is that they settled with "sealed" conditions.

 

[macd]

Yes the word is that they settled with "sealed" conditions.

Thanks. Hope it hurt.

 

[flaming]

That's a pretty incredible story!

I could, kind of, see where he was going in filing the initial appeal, that his penalty was to retire and should not have been changed to DSQ.

But, man alive, you run over and sink another vessel from clear astern... You man up, apologise and get your insurers on the case.

 

[Zen Zero]

That's a pretty incredible story!

You man up, apologise and get your insurers on the case.

That's what I thought too!

 

[dom]

Quick point/caution: we are only seeing one side of the argument here and nobody seems to quite know the ongoing status of the case. In light of this, and of the amount of legal flak being thrown around, I'd personally be inclined to desist from any outright criticisms of either party. Also bear in mind that US citizens to tend to recourse to law more than we do.

 

[Romeo]

..... I'd personally be inclined to desist from any outright criticisms of either party.....

You are not really getting the hang of the internet.

I don't think we can say that there was any malice here though. I would think it is more likely to be carelessness/ ineptitude all be it with dangerous consequences. There must be a lot to think about approaching a mark in a 100 foot vessel with that many sails up. Perhaps an argument for avoiding having vessels of such varying size and speed on the same racecourse at the same time.

 

[Chris_Robb]

But as many of us sailors are owners of "luxury yachts" (thank you, Daily Mail), we must presumably be rich.....and therefore Not Nice.
So we should stop pretending to like and be polite each other.

If the cap fits as they say.......

 

[Zen Zero]

You are not really getting the hang of the internet.

I don't think we can say that there was any malice here though. I would think it is more likely to be carelessness/ ineptitude all be it with dangerous consequences. There must be a lot to think about approaching a mark in a 100 foot vessel with that many sails up. Perhaps an argument for avoiding having vessels of such varying size and speed on the same racecourse at the same time.

From my take Big Boat underestimated their own speed whilst trying to pass inside of Little Boats A & B whilst A&B were engaged in a tactical engagement, and got there too soon, shunting B into A. B had recently tacked onto Big Boat's track, inside of C's and was deliberately overstanding the mark, forcing C to do the same, for reasons that I don't really understand.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm, not aware of present days Race Rules in yacht racing, but if we were to compare the skippers actions and non actions resulting in this pretty major collision with those commonly used in Road Traffic accidents, tis I read most common to see what preventative actions were taken by the parties involved. For instance, did a vehicle slow down, brake, swerve to avoid etc etc, if not then these non preventative actions are oft reported in the summing up and apportioning blame.
So?

 

[bbg]

Rich people are never nice

I have to disagree. I was in a 36 footer that was T-Boned by a maxi owned by a very rich guy. Very very rich. Nearly sunk us.

There was a protest hearing of course, that we won despite being on port and the other boat being on starboard.

How un-nice was he? Knowing that the result of the collision was that our boat could not race in the biggest race of the season, he invited the two owners out onto his boat for the biggest race of the season (an offshore race of about 24 hours). One of the owners declined so I got to go, and we smashed the course record. And that rich, mean, obviously-must-be-not-nice-because-he-is-rich owner gave us each a trophy to commemorate the record.

Then invited me back on board for the next two seasons of racing in Seattle, San Francisco and Hawaii.

 

[adwuk]

B had recently tacked onto Big Boat's track...

I thought it looked like Sumurun (big boat) ran into the back of the leeward of the two 30's, forcing her to windward and across the transom of the windward 30 (Amorita). This caught Amorita's mainsheet, dragging her stern to windward and pushing her bow into the path of Sumurun. Sumurun was bang out of order trying to get into a space at the mark which did not exist, and was very lucky not to have injured someone.

 

[bbg]

More information about the case, including the protest forms and results.

http://www.ny30.org/pdfs/Complaint2.pdf

Excellent that the protest committee noted that it accepted the protest even though no protest flag was shown. "No hail or protest flag as protest boat sank."

 

[macd]

Quick point/caution: we are only seeing one side of the argument here and nobody seems to quite know the ongoing status of the case.

...unless they've read post #21.

 

[dom]

...unless they've read post #21.

Fair point if settlement has indeed been reached; but even if it has I've seen folk dragged into protracted legal battles for no other reason than idle chitchat. One needs to be properly represented to brush aside even baseless accusations in the US and the costs can easily exceed $100K; more if the other side is really flinging it around.

 

[chrishscorp]

What shines through all of this is to see the pictures of Amorita brought out of the repair shed and relaunched, hats off to the craftsmen involved, a labour of love i would suggest.

 

[skyflyer]

It's pretty ridiculous that the court even considered the case. They should have just left it with the protest committee. In fact the only issue in front of the court should have been whether the protest committee (and the following US Sailing Appeals Committee) was the correct forum for hearing the protest. The court is opening themselves up to a huge number of cases with this. Can you imagine what would happen if every crash in auto races ended up in court?

The article does not tell us what is the actual purpose of the lawsuit. Perhaps the Sumurun insurance company is refusing to pay without a court order. As said above, the court should not hear the facts of the case at all. They should do nothing more than rule that the Sailing Committee is the proper forum for this.

Eh????

It WAS considered by the protest committee, and since then Towbin hasn't paid a penny in compensation. No sailing association in the world has the power to compel anyone to pay compensation - the ONLY recourse is to the Courts if the responsible part won't pay up (well - either that or send the boys round!)

 

[Seven Spades]

Something is odd here. Why didn't the insurance companies sort it out? Were one or both un-insured? You would have expected Amorita's insurers to have issued the litigation not the owner it is all quite odd.

 

[macd]

Something is odd here. Why didn't the insurance companies sort it out? Were one or both un-insured? You would have expected Amorita's insurers to have issued the litigation not the owner it is all quite odd.

Maybe the insurer's couldn't agree.
If I remember correctly from reading about this a couple of weeks ago, the litigant was also seeking punitive damages, which could probably not have been part of any insurance settlement.

 

[skyflyer]

I think the following clause (from my policy) is pretty standard

4. We shall have the absolute right in our discretion and at our expense:-
(i) to commence or take over and conduct the defence of any claim against or
prosecution of an Insured Person arising out of an occurrence which might give
rise to a claim under the Policy;
(ii) to commence or take over and conduct any claim brought in the name of an
Insured Person to recover sums which are or which might be payable under the
Policy;
(iii) to commence or take over and conduct the representation of an Insured Person
at any inquest, inquiry or similar proceeding which might give rise to a claim
under the Policy.

Only the wronged party has a direct claim on the wrong-doer; the insurance company cannot directly sue the wrong-doer, and so it requires the insured to do so, but takes over the management of the case.

So my guess would be that the owner of the sunken boat claimed on his insurers, who then went to Sumrum/Towbin for recompense and were rfused so are now taking it to court. Doesn't sound the slightest bit strange to me - especially in the USA!

 

[macd]

Skyflyer: what you wrote may very well be the case in the UK, but it's perhaps a bit of a stretch to assume it's also the case in the US? Certainly none of the many reports of the case I've read mentioned insurance or insurers in any way.