alant
Well-Known Member
Once around the corner from Dover, the seas would have been much reduced.
Liquid Vortex trial starts
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
Once around the corner from Dover, the seas would have been much reduced.
alant
Well-Known Member
The best of plans can go up in smoke once the shooting starts.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Which still leaves the question: if they'd got past the worst of it on their own why couldn't they make Ramsgate under their own steam?
Hypothetical Scenario: They don't put out a Mayday. Boat gets to Ramsgate. Injured crew makes his way to A&E. One or two crew jump off, go home, demand money back, complain to RYA. Rest continue to London after R&R. RYA maybe give the school a talking too.
Reality: Make Mayday call. Towed in by RNLI. School goes belly up. Owner & skipper in court.
No real comment except slightly uneasy that the situation could encourage others not to put out a mayday and make an unsuccessful attempt to reach port under their own steam.
Seajet
...
OR, arrogant idiots working for a company taking peoples' money and themselves responsible for said punters' lives don't set off into storms but take them to the pub.
Only risk to life being the curry.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember that the Skipper and one crew were on the foredeck dealing with a genoa/furler problem and that the wave-freak or not- smashed the helm into the wheel with such force it bent it around the pedestal and damaged the helm's ribs. It was not total steering loss at all, as a coded yacht would have had an emergency tiller and the rudder was still there. The problem appears to have been a poor decision to sail-surely the fact that it was to the LBC had nothing to do with it-and a weak crew,half of who were suffering from Mal de Mer. We did this to death when it happened. Why dont we wait and see what the decision of the court brings?
alant
Well-Known Member
I was simply commenting on the remarks about the sea state in the photo.
Not going to get into conspiracy theory discussions - will await court details.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
No conspiracy theory.
A1Sailor
...
Talulah
Well-Known Member
The previous investigation - RORC race incident in May 2011.
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Liquid Vortex_Report.pdf
concluded with a number of recommendations.
I speculate the prosecution will be spending some time discussing which of those recommedations were implemented and how.
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Liquid Vortex_Report.pdf
concluded with a number of recommendations.
I speculate the prosecution will be spending some time discussing which of those recommedations were implemented and how.
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
OR, arrogant idiots working for a company taking peoples' money and themselves responsible for said punters' lives don't set off into storms but take them to the pub.
Only risk to life being the curry.
+1!
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
It does seem as if this incident is a repeat of the previous one...
Hence the grounds for prosecution... To make a mistake is one thing... to repeat it after being told where you are going wrong is another...
Hence the grounds for prosecution... To make a mistake is one thing... to repeat it after being told where you are going wrong is another...
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
Simple, don't get into a situation you can't get yourself, your crew, and your boat, out of. Luck should not have a large part to play in a passage plan.
Searush
Well-Known Member
The whole point of a PP is to eliminate the need for luck & to deal with a complete lack of it!
fireball
Well-Known Member
Sorry - but that isn't always possible - there is always the unforeseen - and that it's unforeseen means you're not always prepared for it ...
Many of us carry liferafts and I hope all of us carry at least one method of calling for help.
If we simply followed your advice then we wouldn't need any safety kit - but then we'd never go anywhere because every time we set foot on the boat the risks in boating start.
A passage plan should be a method for planning whatifs - making sure you're prepared should you find the situation you're in not conforming to plan A ...
Do you have a plan to get yourself out of a situation where your steering becomes disabled?
Do you have a plan to get yourself out of every eventuality? At what point will you alert the emergency services?
I'm not suggesting that Liquid Vortex should've been out there - a good number on here said the intended route was inadvisable given the forecast - I wouldn't have been out there (but I do tend towards fair weather if I can!)
But to suggest that a vessel shouldn't be out there if it cannot get itself out of every eventuality is just ludicrous!!
alant
Well-Known Member
"Hypothetical Scenario: They don't put out a Mayday. Boat gets to Ramsgate. Injured crew makes his way to A&E. One or two crew jump off, go home, demand money back, complain to RYA. Rest continue to London after R&R. RYA maybe give the school a talking too."
Still hypothetical & sounds to me as a conspiracy theory.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Go and look the words up in a dictionary. I haven't even hinted at anyone conspiring to get them.
Simply stating that if they hadn't made the mayday they would probably have made it ok and there would probably have been no press reports and not much fuss.
As that didn't happen, it is only a hypothetical scenario.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Sorry a wave washing through the cockpit with enough force is not something that happens in benign conditions, and expecting the weather to stick precisely to any particular forecast is in my opinion verging on lunacy.
They took a chance for commercial gain and got caught out, thus they need to pay the price. That was the risk they took. They could have been lucky, they could have been more ulucky and be facing manslaughter charges, but they pushd the limits for finacial gain and that ends up in court.
Seajet
...
+1, absolutely !
Never found myself washed against the tiller - or a wheel - with enough force to bend it, in 'benign conditions' I'd choose for a first date !!!
fireball
Well-Known Member
Must've been a passing mobo then ...
Talulah
Well-Known Member
The case continues...
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10001218.Men_in_court_over_sea_rescue_drama/
What I'm surprised to see in the below reporting of the Court proceedings is that is sais one crew member was thrown overboard.
"SEVEN crew members on a Hampshire boat had to be rescued in the middle of a winter storm, Southampton Crown Court heard.
A video showing the dramatic moments the crew of the Liquid Vortex were rescued from the sea was played to jury members at the start of a five-day trial.
Skipper Charles Sturrock was in charge of the boat when it set sail from Shamrock Quay on the River Itchen in Southampton on Monday, January 2.
Despite force 10 storm warnings he had set sail that afternoon, the court heard.
The next morning the RNLI was forced to mount a rescue of the seven-manned boat, owned by Hot Liquid sailing Ltd, off the coast of Kent after one crew member was thrown overboard, another injured and several had succumbed to seasickness.
Director of the sailing firm, Jason Manning, and Sturrock deny a total of seven charges relating to safety breaches under the Merchant Shipping Act.
Five novice sailors had paid £225 each for a Southampton to London voyage on board the racing yacht which was due to arrive in time for the capital’s annual January boat show.
Sturrock had performed a safety briefing that morning before explaining that they would be doing a night-time crossing, the court heard.
Prosecutor Mary Gibbons read out the weather forecasts that were due to arrive that day saying that gale force eight and nine conditions were expected after 7pm that day.
“Both Manning and Sturrock will have known there was going to be gale force 10 weather warnings and they would have known that this going to sea,” Miss Gibbons added.
At the height of the storm in the early hours of Tuesday January 3 gusts of wind had picked up to 50 knots in some places along the south coast.
At 6.20am a mayday message was sent out after one crew member had been thrown overboard and Jason Heap, from Winchester was injured, the court heard.
Mr Heap, who needed treatment at a hospital in Margate, said: “I was at the helm and a large wave struck me and I was forced onto the wheel. The wheel buckled over. My face hit the wheel and then my chest and then Sturrock called the mayday. I went below deck and was attended to by some of the crew below deck.”
Manning, 36, of Pluto Road, Eastleigh, denies three charges relating to checking weather forecasts, standard operating procedures and failing to contact HM Coastguard.
Sturrock, 50, from Much Wenlock, Shropshire, denies four charges relating to planning of the voyage, complying with standard operating procedures, failing to identify and assess risks to the vessel and crew and to sailing at night without proper equipment.
Proceeding"
The case is scheduled for 5 days.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10001218.Men_in_court_over_sea_rescue_drama/
What I'm surprised to see in the below reporting of the Court proceedings is that is sais one crew member was thrown overboard.
"SEVEN crew members on a Hampshire boat had to be rescued in the middle of a winter storm, Southampton Crown Court heard.
A video showing the dramatic moments the crew of the Liquid Vortex were rescued from the sea was played to jury members at the start of a five-day trial.
Skipper Charles Sturrock was in charge of the boat when it set sail from Shamrock Quay on the River Itchen in Southampton on Monday, January 2.
Despite force 10 storm warnings he had set sail that afternoon, the court heard.
The next morning the RNLI was forced to mount a rescue of the seven-manned boat, owned by Hot Liquid sailing Ltd, off the coast of Kent after one crew member was thrown overboard, another injured and several had succumbed to seasickness.
Director of the sailing firm, Jason Manning, and Sturrock deny a total of seven charges relating to safety breaches under the Merchant Shipping Act.
Five novice sailors had paid £225 each for a Southampton to London voyage on board the racing yacht which was due to arrive in time for the capital’s annual January boat show.
Sturrock had performed a safety briefing that morning before explaining that they would be doing a night-time crossing, the court heard.
Prosecutor Mary Gibbons read out the weather forecasts that were due to arrive that day saying that gale force eight and nine conditions were expected after 7pm that day.
“Both Manning and Sturrock will have known there was going to be gale force 10 weather warnings and they would have known that this going to sea,” Miss Gibbons added.
At the height of the storm in the early hours of Tuesday January 3 gusts of wind had picked up to 50 knots in some places along the south coast.
At 6.20am a mayday message was sent out after one crew member had been thrown overboard and Jason Heap, from Winchester was injured, the court heard.
Mr Heap, who needed treatment at a hospital in Margate, said: “I was at the helm and a large wave struck me and I was forced onto the wheel. The wheel buckled over. My face hit the wheel and then my chest and then Sturrock called the mayday. I went below deck and was attended to by some of the crew below deck.”
Manning, 36, of Pluto Road, Eastleigh, denies three charges relating to checking weather forecasts, standard operating procedures and failing to contact HM Coastguard.
Sturrock, 50, from Much Wenlock, Shropshire, denies four charges relating to planning of the voyage, complying with standard operating procedures, failing to identify and assess risks to the vessel and crew and to sailing at night without proper equipment.
Proceeding"
The case is scheduled for 5 days.