Lin Pard Pardey - try it without a lifejacket

jamesjermain said:
Has the great Lyn Pardey finally lost the plot?
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Perhaps she has it right, and the safety-mad have it wrong? Her message as I interpreted it was that over reliance on safety gear is no alternative to preparing your boat properly.

With all those years, all those miles, in all conditions, perhaps we should listen to people like her as opposed to the many anonymous "authorities" who like to tell us how to run our lives.

I like her suggestions.
 
jamesjermain said:
Has the great Lyn Pardey finally lost the plot?
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I wouldn't think so. They appear to be the sort of people who do things a certain way because it works and has been proven through significant experience. At least that's how I gauge them from their opinions stated in literature.

There is an element of risk that actually makes one more aware of danger and as such behave in a safe way. This has been demonstrated in studies where risk taking increases the more humans are protected from risk.

From her opinion if you can move about the boat without a harness confidently then, you can sail oceans. Perhaps this bit of video is out of context.

How many of us sailed (pre mid 1990's) without harnesses and lifejackets in boisterous conditions and didn't even think about it? I would hazard a guess, quite a few.
 
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message seemed fairly basic to me, it was aimed at beginners. Get to know you boat, what to hold onto, and where to put better handholds, you might need them, and know how to get around the boat, when you forget to clip on (as she explicitly said). Nothing about not clipping on, just that you might forget, in an emergency, or if for instance you'd just woken up and pretty dozy for example.
 
i've never come across an anecdote of someone saying their live was saved by a harness (although it must happen). i've read a few stories where people have been dragged along under the water because they were clipped on.

there's a story in this month's pbo where a woman survives 2 hours in the dark in the water without a lifejacket (after cutting herself free because it was trapping her under the water)

i can understand the risk of becoming separated from the boat and lost at sea as it were but i'm sure being dragged along by a tether isn't ideal either.

why haven't we come up with better means. you can get mobile phone apps to track your friend's movements around the world, there must be a relatively inexpensive way to apply this in sailing so that boats could find lost crew members more easily?
 
ninky said:
why haven't we come up with better means. you can get mobile phone apps to track your friend's movements around the world, there must be a relatively inexpensive way to apply this in sailing so that boats could find lost crew members more easily?
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I think they have, Raymarine Life Tag...........
 
Searush said:
I seem to recollect that one of their books has a piccy of her standing on the foredeck mid-ocean facing a sunset & absolutely starkers. So no lifejacket or harness there then.
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I think your "recollection" is failing you a bit. She was setting a hurricane lamp as an anchor light from a jib sheet.*

Chas

*and somewhere in the picture files of these magazines will be that picture as it was published in YM.
 
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We met the Pardeys when they were in the UK and spent some time in our marina and we had a look over Serrafyn. Neither the boat nor the owners are of your usual mass produced or RYA dazed kipper variety! Listen and learn from them folks, even if you have other views to theirs, lovely people who have bin there (more than once) and done it.
 
There are LOADS of stories of people being saved by harnesses.

I have combined harness / lifejackets, but apart from going ashore in the tender I regard the lifejacket part as most definitely Plan B.

Singlehanders in particular should wear harnesses; last I heard a poor bloke off Scotland is missing, though his boat has been found.

In the days when wind vane self steering was more prevalent, a lot of singlehanders trailed a thin but strong line, if they went over the side and managed to grab this it would disengage the self steering and hopefully the boat would round up to a halt.

I don't see why this shouldn't be rigged to pull an electronic autopilot off it's tiller pin, though wheel systems might take a bit more thought.

In the accounts of people being dragged along by harnesses, most seem to use the water flow to help get at least a hand onto the guardrails / side deck.

There were a couple of nasty incidents in the early days of harnesses when people were dragged under by quickly sinking boats etc, and couldn't release their end spliced directly to the harness; one of the reasons all modern harnesses have a hook at both ends.

With regard to the personal homing devices, great, but some seem to fall into the trap of only being suitable for racing boats with large crews, where one person can monitor the boat's homing system and shout directions to the helmsperson.

A different story if I go over the side without a harness and my novice girlfriend is left to handle the boat + find me, which is why I'm pretty keen on demonstrating the lifebouy, light & danbouy, with MOB practice, and more to the point I always clip on if in the slightest doubt, to avoid worrying novices I point out it's as simple a precaution as putting on a seatbelt in a car...
 
Seajet said:
I point out it's as simple a precaution as putting on a seatbelt in a car...
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It’s not though, is it? I think it is irresponsible to pretend that wearing a harness/clipping on doesn’t have any downsides. It makes you less agile, for a start. Usually not a problem in a car, but a hassle when you are quickly trying to take in a great bundle of flapping main sail.
I regularly find I have the strap on the wrong side for what I want to do and have to stop, turn around or reclip.
So I tend not to wear a harness unless there is solid water coming on deck, just as long as I can keep the loss of Tabarly out of my mind.
 
I see.

So I'm advocating the use of harnesses and you're basically against them, and I'm irresponsible...

I never said that putting one on would remove all dangers, but it sure as hell helps !

You mention Eric Tabarly, I think it's a fair bet he knew where the hand holds were.

As for getting tangled or having to re-clip, I think this may be unfamiliarity or lack of harness points; one modification i have found very useful is a harness point each side of the foot of the mast.

On my 22' Anderson this allows a line to be left clipped on and led to the cockpit, so one may clip to it before going on deck.

Being near the centreline it should also give less distance overboard if I ever get washed away, and it also allows me to reach the pulpit / forestay etc for headsail changes ( I don't believe in roller headsails at this size boat ).

For larger boats more harness points and a 3-way line would seem an idea.

If things are getting at all serious I use a 3-point line, so that at no stage am I or the crew going forward ( if experienced ) completely unclipped.

There was a system around just after the '79 Fastnet disaster called 'latchway' where one could clip onto a gizmo on a jackstay, and it would remain secure even passing over attachment points at stanchions etc; it looked impressive on demonstration, but didn't seem to catch on, don't know if it was the price putting people off or some other problem.

Modern harnesses are quite compact, I don't feel they hamper my moving around any more than waterproofs, and if one cares to spend the money on something like Spinlock harnesses, they're hardly visible let alone an encumbrance !
 
When I was sailing on my 23 footer or 28 footer years ago I never had a harness.I moved fluidly about the deck and felt safe I knew the boats well and was in stepwith their movements.These days I go for an occassional sail on a mates 32 footer and cant get happy about moving around and always seem to be putting my foot down when the boat is coming up...a question of gtting to know well your boat.
 
I have a feeling there was more to Eric Tabarly than the simplest conclusion, I believe he had an incurable illness. I met the man just once back in the 1962 when he and Pen Duick were in the Tall Ships Race and he came for a meal on the boat I was on, a real inspiration. I have several Pen Duick souvenir items too collected from trips to South Brittany where he is still regarded as a national hero.

Listen again to Lin Pardey, she makes a valid comment and one to consider whether you always don a lifejacket and harness or only do so on occasions.

Personally (ie not telling anyone what THEY should do) I rarely wear either harness or lifejacket but our boats were always set up for harness use with proper attachment points and lines for when we did. I've changed headsails on a wild night in a half tonner and cursed the harness more often than I wished I had worn one, because returning to the cockpit with a big bundle of wet sail needing both hands to hold it was a PITA. Recent boats have been bigger, had more protected cockpits and could be reefed without going on deck, different scenario altogether. We bought brand new lifejacket and harness combos when we bought our last boat 10 years back and they have never been worn, not a boast merely a statement and we twice crossed the Channel in full gales during that time as well as other rough trips. We did put buoyancy aids on a couple of times to go ashore in the dink when it was choppy.
 
Seajet said:
I see.

So I'm advocating the use of harnesses and you're basically against them, and I'm irresponsible...
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Rather a willful misreading of what I wrote.

You are claiming it's basically just like putting a car seatbelt on. But it patently isn't. Car seatbelts like bicycle helmets are essentially passive devices - they don't very much affect your comfort or ability to drive or ride. There have been arguments about the act of wearing seatbelts and helmets actually causing injury or death, but I think these are really spurious.

Not so with a harness on deck. Your sailing may be different from mine - less vigorous or perhaps just better planned - but I have frequently found myself in a position where the harness is restricting me, or is something extra to think about - i.e. a distraction. In other words, I tend to do my job better without one. So, I have to make a judgement about when it is sensible to wear one and when it is better (i.e. safer from the point of view of the whole boat's integrity) not to.

Also, fair enough on a 22' boat - you probably have narrow and sloping decks, I imagine. Mine is half as long again, but with little in the way of automation. So many things need to be done from the foredeck, using both hands, and arms, and often legs and back. I need to be mobile, perhaps in a way you don't.
 
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