Like for like swap of my Perkins 4108

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pcatterall

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Our 4108 is still going strong but we want to prepare for the time when it needs replacing.

One serious proposal is to do a like for like swap and this is what I will appreciate advise on now.
( We may consider alternatives but on a different thread please!)

We plan to purchase a used engine preferably with similar ancillaries to what is fitted now.
We would have the engine rebuilt by a reputable firm with all the work properly documented and a warranty.
We would overhaul all the ancillary bits and replace as required.

At engine swap time and with the old engine out we would rationalise the engine bay including sound proofing electrics and fuel supply.

We will appreciate any advice on this task. It would be great to get recommendations concerning overhaul specialists and ball park costs.
 
Your plan is wise in that the swap will be easier, but do you really want to invest several thousands of £s in a 50 year old design engine?

Most sensible thing to do is to spec a Beta 35 as a replacement with the adaptor brackets to drop onto your bearers. Just as easy, and with updating and refurbishing all the other bits related to the engine, you will have an all new up to date installation.
 
Tranona said:
Your plan is wise in that the swap will be easier, but do you really want to invest several thousands of £s in a 50 year old design engine?

Most sensible thing to do is to spec a Beta 35 as a replacement with the adaptor brackets to drop onto your bearers. Just as easy, and with updating and refurbishing all the other bits related to the engine, you will have an all new up to date installation.
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Thanks, there are some reasons to stick with 'old technology' but I would like to confine discussion to 'plan A' as outlined!!
 
pcatterall said:
Thanks, there are some reasons to stick with 'old technology' but I would like to confine discussion to 'plan A' as outlined!!
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Well, you have answered your own question. Buy an old motor - plenty around, have it reconditioned - plenty of people still able to do this. Makes sure that it is compatible with the way your engine is marinised and fit it. Would guess the reconditioning cost is likely to be in the region of £2500-3000, that is between 60-70% of the cost of a new engine, plus your core engine cost. These things have a habit of being a bit open ended until you have a known core from which to work. So, likely to be a bit cheaper than a new engine - but unless you find a core that needs little work - not much.
 
Tranona said:
Your plan is wise in that the swap will be easier, but do you really want to invest several thousands of £s in a 50 year old design engine?

Most sensible thing to do is to spec a Beta 35 as a replacement with the adaptor brackets to drop onto your bearers. Just as easy, and with updating and refurbishing all the other bits related to the engine, you will have an all new up to date installation.
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And excellent choice
 
PaulRainbow said:
How'd you arrive at that please ?
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From many years in the trade - but note a guess as I qualified it by saying it really depends on the condition of the core (donor) engine. There was time when reconditioned engines for popular engines like this were in high demand and you could get a quote for an off the shelf replacement, but now it is likely to be a one off.

It is the uncertainty of costs in advance plus ending up with a 40 or 50 year old engine that drives most people to buy new if they want a reliable long lived engine.
 
Couple of years ago, I sorted some probs on a 4-108, that came from a Challenger(?) tank. Low hours and in good nick. Replaced the seized old 4-108 that had sea water up the exhaust. The sorting included a new water trap to avoid the fate of the previous engine.
There is an outfit that supplies such engines. Ex lifeboats and other commercial users.
 
Tranona said:
From many years in the trade - but note a guess as I qualified it by saying it really depends on the condition of the core (donor) engine. There was time when reconditioned engines for popular engines like this were in high demand and you could get a quote for an off the shelf replacement, but now it is likely to be a one off.

It is the uncertainty of costs in advance plus ending up with a 40 or 50 year old engine that drives most people to buy new if they want a reliable long lived engine.
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As I stated when opening the thread I would like to keep opinions about new versus old reconnd. out of the thread but my 40 year old Perkins demonstrates its reliable long lived capabilities quite well.
I think the 2500 to 3000 quid estimate is quite a bit more than I had been led to believe not so long ago.

But better to stick to my original request and look at 'new versus reconned' in another thread!
 
pcatterall said:
As I stated when opening the thread I would like to keep opinions about new versus old reconnd. out of the thread but my 40 year old Perkins demonstrates its reliable long lived capabilities quite well.
I think the 2500 to 3000 quid estimate is quite a bit more than I had been led to believe not so long ago.

But better to stick to my original request and look at 'new versus reconned' in another thread!
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But you would not touch a 4/108 if you were buying new today. It is a heavy, noisy inefficient lump. Excellent in its day, but new engines are just so much better.

Think you really have the answer to the question. Is it practical to do what you plan - yes, the parts are available. Is it potentially cheaper than a new engine - yes, but with a question mark about the actual costs as that depends on the condition of your core, which you won't know until you get it. Things to watch out for - is the new engine compatible with the current marinisation bits. Is it worth putting old marinisation bits on an effectively new engine and using the same gearbox.

it is just not a simple question as there are so many unknowns until you actually do it.
 
Reconditioning:
Re-bore and new oversized pistons or re-sleeve, use original pistons with new rings
Regrind crank
New bearings and thrusts
Cam shaft replacement along with new bearings (plus reaming)
New oil pump
Cam followers
Overhaul rocker gear
Pushrods
Valves, valve guides and valve stem seals
Conversion kit of gaskets and seals
rear seal carrier and new style lip seal
Timing chain
Then there is the fuel side to take care of - pumps (injector and lift) and the injectors themselves.
HWMO used to rebuild engine back in the day and if provide your own labour it is do-able at reasonable cost you but, and it is a big but if the donor or core unit is such that it requires a full seeing to or you are relying on "mechanics" to do the rebuild the costs could easily be prohibitive.
Check your local area for engine rebuilders, you may be lucky and find one that could recondition a 4108 for you at a reasonable price
 
pcatterall said:
As I stated when opening the thread I would like to keep opinions about new versus old reconnd. out of the thread but my 40 year old Perkins demonstrates its reliable long lived capabilities quite well.
I think the 2500 to 3000 quid estimate is quite a bit more than I had been led to believe not so long ago.

But better to stick to my original request and look at 'new versus reconned' in another thread!
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Well my Perkins perama was reconditioned by Golden Arrow Marine about 10 years ago. I approached them recently about having it reconditioned again and they sent me a parts needed list and prices without labour. It worked out at about 4 grand with labour. Can get a new Beta 30 for that.
 
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Think Tranona is right.

Parts4Engine quote £2000 for a recon 4.108 engine Plus Vat
You also need to add £350 for a recon fuel pump plus £150 for recon injectors
You also need to get the Alternators and Starter motor reconditioned, say £150
So you could be looking at £2700 ish plus VAT say £3500
You also still have an old gearbox, manifold, heat exchanger and so on.

I did a full recon on a Ford 1.6 (Escort) and it cost me about £1500 all in but I did all the stripdown and rebuild myself with only the rebore and crank balance being done by workshop.
I did have to buy a recon head as mine had a crack.

In the great scheme of things, I think you need to look at the total cost over say the next 10 years Say £3500 for the old engine recon and £5500 for the new engine, balanced over 10 years that is £200 extra per year for a brand new engine.

You could also look at Marine Power engines, quite a few folk on here have bought them.
 
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Sorry Typo in last post. Should have been Marine Power Solutions

They have an MP437 which is a 1.8 litre engine with an output of 37 HP at 3000 and sell for about £2800 plus VAT. These are Chinese engines so is a bit of a gamble.
 
Thanks all.

A few real costs have now been quoted. The case against a rebuilt engine is being built up!. Any other experiences on the rebuild issue will be appreciated.

I have read threads on our forum concerning the Marine power engine but it seems to be from mainly one owner and, of course there are no reports about long term use yet.
 
pcatterall said:
Thanks all.

A few real costs have now been quoted. The case against a rebuilt engine is being built up!. Any other experiences on the rebuild issue will be appreciated.

I have read threads on our forum concerning the Marine power engine but it seems to be from mainly one owner and, of course there are no reports about long term use yet.
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Beta Marine 5 year Warranty, Recon engine 1 year Warranty

Pleasure applications/private use – 5 years from date of the invoice from Beta Marine Ltd, or 1000 operating hours, whichever comes first (except Saildrive). Saildrive warranty is limited to Pleasure use only; and a maximum of two years from commissioning or 200 operating hours whichever comes first.
 
Much depends on the value of the boat as the resale value must also be taken into consideration.
Expect to take a hit of £5000 to £10000 depending on the value with a 4108 compared to a Nanni or Beta.
I am in a similar situation to you in as much as I've had my 4108 for nearly 30 years and I love it dearly, but it is the only 4108 in a well respected boat of over 140 built to date, they are still being built, but all the others have Nanni's Beta's or Yanmar's.
If ever I were to sell the boat I would re-engine her before the sale purely because of the resale value

Plank
 
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