Lifting Keels

I'm surprised there aren't more posts on here from Southerly owners!

Alas, I've only been a Southerly owner since November, but I can pass on how pleased the various Southerly owners I've spoken to are about their lifting keels.

The older Southerly's at least drop their hydraulic keels through gravity. On ours, the pump pulls the keel up, and I presume a solenoid lets the keel drop down.

We bought a Southerly in big part because of the lifting keel. The extra flexibility when entering harbours is fantastic.
 
Philiz said:
Following on from my Westerly Riviera thread, another boat we're interested in has an hydraulically operated lifting keel. Does anyone have one of these? Pro's and con's please!

The boat is a Jeanneau Sun Fizz 40.

I feel I should warn you, there may be a few similar posts in the coming weeks/months but as we're moving from power to sail I thought it best to ask the folks in the know :o
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I have chartered some boats with hydraulically operated centre boards. The operation is relatively simple but none of them impressed me with their sailing ability.

Unless you sail regularly in shoal waters you need to ask yourself if you want to sacrifice sailing performance all the time for the relatively few times where the difference 2 or 3 feet of draft will be crucial.

I'm biaised of course but I prefer something solid and immoveable below the boat. The Sun Fizz is otoh a lovely sailing boat. I had agreed to acquire one once but the triangular deal fell through when the buyer of my boat dropped out.
 
Sybarite said:
I have chartered some boats with hydraulically operated centre boards. The operation is relatively simple but none of them impressed me with their sailing ability.

Unless you sail regularly in shoal waters you need to ask yourself if you want to sacrifice sailing performance all the time for the relatively few times where the difference 2 or 3 feet of draft will be crucial.

I'm biaised of course but I prefer something solid and immoveable below the boat. The Sun Fizz is otoh a lovely sailing boat. I had agreed to acquire one once but the triangular deal fell through when the buyer of my boat dropped out.
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I agree your observation regarding board lifters. They do not perform nearly as well as a deep lifting fin and bulb. Our bulb can be well and truly fixed down at a draft of 1.7 m to give an upwind performance that bigger floating caravans of the french variety would dream of.

They are a compromise but probably sail better than most twin keelers or shoal draught wing keelers.
 
I've always sailed shallow boats; had a twin keeler before our current lift keeler. I'd find it very hard to swap over to a deep fixed keel. If I were ever to have the time (and ability and mental aptitude) for bluer water, I'd buy an Ovni.
 
Solent Boat,

I agree Ovni's are lovely, though a little warning bell goes off re. alloy, disimiliar other metals & salt water.

Boats with light largely unballasted plates can't possibly compete with deep bulbed keels, for a start one needs 'grip' more than a metre down to get out of surface drift, not to mention having the ballast carried as deep as possible.

Which is why I love my boat so much; though I have doubts about larger designs managing the same format, and big racing boats with deep thin chord bulbed fins - let alone canting jobs - have come to a sad end once too often.

Another consideration with lift keels is ' what if we get inverted by a huge wave ?! '; I've never come close to such conditions, but do keep a cut down length of stainless tubing next to the keel winch, so I can jam it in and winch the keel up a fraction to secure it, hopefully preventing the thing slamming back down if the boat was upside down, quite possibly the end to an already bad day.

These things are not drawbacks, so much as considerations to have in mind & handle.
 
Seajet said:
Pro Dave & Solent Boat,


the keel wire has to be replaced every few years and 'over-straining' with even manual winches - if the keel is jammed in some way - can be a real condsideration, in my boat when the tufnol roller on the keel lift purchase split it gave a jolt to the boat ( and my heart ! ) like the end of the world, fortunately no damage.

I always do a test-raise of the keel before launching in case the paint is too thick, so was able to get a new roller made.

Another point to bear in mind is that while one is instinctively drawn to stainless wire, galvanised 7 X 19 mild steel is actually better as it's more flexible & takes to small radius rollers without nasty kinks & damage.
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I think that's a pretty good summary, if you get a good one, you will probably be fine for years. But if the owners selling cos he knows there's a problem & ain't telling you . . .

Problems that happen can be relatively easily & cheaply sorted on a small boat can become a real big liability on a bigger one. Avoid like the plague any keel that "rattles" in its casing in overfalls! Ask the Southerly Owners about the cost of replacing hinge pins or actuating cables - they last a long time, but not forever, especially if thay have been abused from time to time. Gritty muddy water could, I suspect, cause wear to board, case & hinge pin. The main dealer should be able to give you a quote for replacing the cables & hinge, you could then factor that into a price cut - just in case. Hydraulics SHOULD be pretty straight forward & any agri or diesel fitter should be able to sort them out.
 
Thanks all for your comments. So far as I can tell the system on this boat is manual only. It is operated by what is basically a jack handle which located into the pump within a seat box. The lifting keel does not intrude into the cabin space, it retracts into the upper section of the keel box. The upper keel box, although quite broad, does not have a bulb or wing. Both lifting and lowering appears to be by hydraulic means rather than relying on gravity. So far as I can recall draft with keel raised is approx 4' and about 6' 6'' with it lowered.
 
Philiz said:
Thanks all for your comments. So far as I can tell the system on this boat is manual only. It is operated by what is basically a jack handle which located into the pump within a seat box. The lifting keel does not intrude into the cabin space, it retracts into the upper section of the keel box. The upper keel box, although quite broad, does not have a bulb or wing. Both lifting and lowering appears to be by hydraulic means rather than relying on gravity. So far as I can recall draft with keel raised is approx 4' and about 6' 6'' with it lowered.
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Sounds like the manual pump I have. It could be a very small capacity pump in which case it takes a lot of rapid hand movements to get the keel up:) Simple job to plumb and wire an electro/hydraulic pump.
 
PaulGooch said:
Can't be hard to hook it up to a lorry tail lift motor if it's Manual Phil. If you fancy the job, let me know, i know a commercial breaker who might have a pump.
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Lighter weight 12v pumps available from car breakers now. They have plastic oil reservoirs and are more compact. They are used on tin top coupe/ cabriolets and soft top motorized hoods. Looking at replacing mine to gain a bit of locker space and cut down on weight.
 
Philiz said:
This might be a daft question, but if they're prone to sticking, how do you if it's actually lowered and not stuck in the up position? Or can you only tell by the sailing characteristics not being as you would expect?
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You hear the movement. I think their may have been an inspection panel too but that was along time ago.
 
I know this is a rather old post but interested to hear more about your Delphia lifting keel as I’m looking at one at the moment but know very little about them. Any tips?
 
my lift keel is the gravity drop keel in a stub. raised with a winch in the box which stops just under the saloon table but isnt part of the table. have to be careful dropping the keel not to let the rope go too fast. it raises easily and quickly with the winch. I replaced the rope last year from the winch to the bar that attaches to the keel. Im unable to get access to the inside of the stub or keel at my club until i modify the trailer or put more wood under the stub to lift the boat higher. when i got the boat from its previous yard i had them remove the keel, shotblast it and re-epoxy and antfoul, and check the pivot pin and mechanism. the boat has a gate valve next to the galley which a pipe is screwed onto to bring it above the waterline that you can stick a pole down to push the keel free if it gets stuck.

i dont think it uses cables. but the pins may be a concern.

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Many thanks for the info. I think the Delphia 29 that we are looking at has a swing keel that goes flush to the hull.
Not much experience with Delphias locally, do you have any feedback on yours?
 
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