Lift keel yachts - around 20ft and £5k max

Thank you all for your helpful advice. After looking around and reading up I had plumped for an Achilles 24 with the triple keel. Somewhat sooner than anticipated a really good example has turned up reasonably locally so I made an offer and had my bid accepted! My first boat!!

Expect plenty of questions from a new owner very shortly....

Vid.
 
Second vote for a Gem Micro ..... the most rewarding boat I have sailed, never failed to put a smile on our faces. Very managable to tow behind a normal family car and to setup and launch with SWMBO (floats in 9" of water) We stripped ours out and refitted it for one week holidays ... some of the best days of our life!

If you want similar, but better down below look at a Swift 18
 
Following on....

Hi there

yes I know its 2 odd years later but please read on...

I have been scouring the net for info on sailing within my local environment - your poat is the nearest I have found.

I will shortly have a mooring 2km up a tidal river with mud flats and other obstructions but easy access to the sea. It also carries a fair amount of commercial powered craft.

I am looking for a 20footer (actually 19.5ft cos it has to fit inside a 20ft container) to replace a Miracle dinghy.

Tidal flows here are small (Lat 8.0) except for the occassional tsunami!!

I have to decide on

a) hauling the boat out of the water each time

b) berthing her on a mud flat

if (b) I fear she may sink into the mud and not float off again!!! hence keel design has particular relevance.

Your comments or redirects would be greatly appreciated.
 
wynthai,

welcome to the forums.

I'm rather a fan of the Anderson 22, having owned one on & off since 1977 and I run the owners association, www.anderson22class.co.uk

I realise at 21'9" she will be too long for your container, but I can assure you lift keelers do not usually stay in the mud as the tide rises !

In fact if that was going to happen at all, twin keelers with splayed keels would be more susceptible.

A snag with some lift keels is small stones or mud jamming in the slot; the Anderson gets around this by having the ballast bulb veed on top, so it fairs in with the hull when raised, strangely I haven't seen this on any other boat which springs to mind.

With the ballast bulb staying outside, she would lean about 20 degrees on hard sand, but I think that the pounding on sand in any waves is too cruel on any boat anyway; in mud she settles completely upright.

Beware if looking at lift keelers where the keel completely retracts; that means the bottom of the hull will be resting on any stones or hard sharp objects that may well be around.

Another thing to check with ALL lift keelers, is 'has the keel plate been maintained ?'...

It's all too easy to dump the boat ashore on a trailer, with the keel completely inaccessable; I and a lot of Anderson owners keep our boats on high trestles over the winter, allowing the keel to be lowered for a spot of TLC.

This also has the welcome side-effect of putting the boat up high out of the reach of at least casual thieves.

A good lift keel will give far better performance than even the best twin keels ( think wetted area and frontal resistance drag ), and as lifters are usually deeper draft they can grip deeper water, so if there's been a strong wind for a few days setting up 'surface drift' with the top metre or so of the sea moving to leeward, the keel will penetrate to more static water; most twin keelers drawing 3' can't do this.

Handling with what is effectively a fin keel will also be a lot better than the neutral, lifeless feel a lot of twin keelers have.

Just a thought, but in the 1970's when 3 Andersons raced across the Atlantic, they were slightly shortened on deck with a small 'pram bow' fitted, to get inside the 6.5 metre race rule !

2 of those boats are still shortened, but there's nothing to stop you doing something similar; only slightly though...

Good luck in your search.
 
I would recommend my Frolic 18, but they are so rare you are probably wasting your time looking for one.

At 18ft 6" it comfortably fits your length limit. It has an encapulated lifting keel that retracts fully into the hull.

My boat settles twice a day on soft mud and I can assure you it does not stick. Neither have I had any problems with mud jamming the keel. There has been discussion of one particular lifting keel boat that DOES have an issue settling on mud where the mud pumps itself up and out the top of the keel box, unless you make a modification to it.

As already mentioned, do look carefully at any boats you view. Think how you will maintain the keel, and look very carefully at the lifting mechanism and be prepared to service it regularly and replace any worn or damaged parts. Don't be afraid to ask to take the top off the keel box to examine the mechanism and see what state it's in.

In my case, the encapsulated keel is most of the boat's ballast, and it's lifted with a steel wire wound by a winch handle on a lead screw. That cable is rather vital so regular inspection is important. I fear if it were to snap, and the keel were to drop from it's fully raised position, it just might carry on going when it hit the bottom of the boat and make a big hole.

And the other thing you will soon find is there are about as many different ways of implementing a lifting keel, as there are lifting keel boat designs.

Incidently, my keel pivots at the front, so may more correctly be described as a swing keel. Other designs, the whole keel lifts vertically.
 
ProDave,

good points. The Anderson 22 uses a 'trailer winch', with ratchet when raising the keel, braked when lowering so it can't 'run away'; these winches are made by Dutton Lainson of Nebraska, a big company who make a wide variety of winches, may well suit other lift keelers too.

The A22 keel wire is actually 7X19 flexible galvanised mild steel rather than stainless, as the former is happier with small radius pulley assemblies; the wires begin to exhibit the odd sharp strand after about 6-10 years, when it's time to replace, which is easy.

The Frolic and Anderson both benefit from having the ballast bulb where it does most good, on the end of the keel; boats with a relatively light keel and the bulk of the ballast either internal or on a stub right under the hull should be treated with suspicion re. ability to stand up to their canvas in a blow.

Larger lift keelers above say 25' run into serious engineering and may well have to use the 'light plate & ballast stub' approach, but smaller boats can do it properly !

In fact the keel plate and ballast bulb on the A22 adds up to 950lbs, while the Anderson 26 has a ballast stub and just a 100lb plate...

The trestles used by A22's are easy and relatively cheap DIY jobs, which could be adapted to other boats given their hull profile; if of any use I can supply drawings.

trestles102-2.jpg
 
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The Hunter Medina and the Swift 18 are two possible options for you; the Medina will be the more expensive I expect, but a very good performer, and lifting keel. There is also the Sonata which was also designed by David Thomas and the family likeness follows through several of the Hunter range with the Duette(though that is 25') with bilge keelers as well.

The Swift 18(some 20's)is a less sparkling performer being rather beamy,but has the accomodation, the lifting keel and trailer-sailing features. The 20 footer was just an addition to the transom,but I don't believe many were made of this version.

The Sailfish 18 and the Seahawk17 also have their sponsors (cue Lakesailor!) and the former I have sailed in regularly, they are quite dinghy like in feel and forward visibility is somewhat limited when the furling genoa is set,due to rather high cabin top . A club member used to do quite well in our Club Pursuit races in one.

The Hunter 19 's are also around the same price and performance range, well made boats
decent performers.

All the above will be priced around the £2-4.5K including trailers and outboards of 5HP.so
not a massive investment for a first timer.

ianat182
 
20 footers etc etc

Well what a great deal of useful information!!!

I too thought about the diagonal but then ...

would it be feasible to remove a section of bow and refit it ?

Or am I being stupid!!
 
EAGLE 525

http://www.go-sail.co.uk/eagle525.asp

Clever design by Bruce Kirby laser designer

oops wrong one Peter Milne of Fireball fame! CRAFT moment must be getting old!

Twin lift keels creates give loads of space below as they dont intrude in cabin.

I am told they sail well.
 
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The Eagle is a rehashed 1970's Skipper 17; rather a dinghy with a lid, re. ballast or lack thereof.

The Hunter 19 & later ( revised, more roomy coachroof ) Europa sail very well and are very seaworthy, but lift keel versions are rare; not the roomiest of boats, but then they do sail in a way to make up for that.

The Manta 19 is a good boat too if you can find one, though not as seriously seaworthy as the Hunter; David Blagden sailed Hunter 19 'Willing Griffin' across the Atlantic in the 1972 OSTAR race.
 
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northwind said:
This got me wondering if you could actually fit a 21'9" boat into 20' container.. given that you could use the diagnal length of the container by putting the boat in at an angle?
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THANKS FOR ALL THE HELPFUL INFO

This post and the "shortened" 22s made me wonder if it would be feasible to remove asection of bow and refit it out here - or am I being stupid!!
 
Vid said:
Thank you all for your helpful advice. After looking around and reading up I had plumped for an Achilles 24 with the triple keel. Somewhat sooner than anticipated a really good example has turned up reasonably locally so I made an offer and had my bid accepted! My first boat!!

Expect plenty of questions from a new owner very shortly....

Vid.
Click to expand...
Call it a day now chaps - he's already bought his boat.
 
ghostlymoron said:
Call it a day now chaps - he's already bought his boat.
Click to expand...

True, but Wynthai is still looking for suggestions...

wynthai said:
Hi there

yes I know its 2 odd years later but please read on...

I have been scouring the net for info on sailing within my local environment - your poat is the nearest I have found.

I will shortly have a mooring 2km up a tidal river with mud flats and other obstructions but easy access to the sea. It also carries a fair amount of commercial powered craft.

I am looking for a 20footer (actually 19.5ft cos it has to fit inside a 20ft container) to replace a Miracle dinghy.

Tidal flows here are small (Lat 8.0) except for the occassional tsunami!!

I have to decide on

a) hauling the boat out of the water each time

b) berthing her on a mud flat

if (b) I fear she may sink into the mud and not float off again!!! hence keel design has particular relevance.

Your comments or redirects would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
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