Liferafts in France

[jsl]

A snippet in YM suggests that French Customs are empowered to exact a fine for an out-of-date liferaft, (as well as for out-of-date flares), but that they impose no penalty for having no liferaft at all. Is that the Forum's understanding of the situation?

 

[Cloven]

Basically yes - my understanding is that you are correct with the proviso that whereas you do not need a liferaft, you must carry flares and they must be in-date.

 

[tabernacleman]

I understood that French Flagged vessels must conform to French legislation and carry equipment as specified for the class of vessel, ie mirror, lead line, emergency flags. etc and that foreign vessels must conform to their own nationality requirements, which in the case of a UK flagged boat used for none commercial purposes is very little. My boats in France so I need to know if my interpretation is correct, in fact i'll speak to RYA legal tomorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Cloven]

I note that tabenacle-man is referring to a French Flagged vessel and my understanding is that he is correct in respect of those French Flagged vessels.

However, my reply to jsl referred to a UK resident with a UK flagged vessel based in France.

My sincere apologies if I am wrong but as I understand it, there are certain additions to the UK requirements that the French authorities need. One is the flares, another for example is that the boat must carry UK registration (SSR will do) and also all documentation regarding VAT status must be carried in original form etc etc.

One needs none of these for a UK vessel in UK waters.

 

[jsl]

Yes, I understand about the documentation. It would be good to get (?from RYA?) chapter and verse on the liferaft. And perhaps on the absurd business of out-of-date flares being punishable.

 

[Cloven]

jsl - I quite agree about the absurdity of out-of-date flares being punishable but that's how it is at the moment. I am in the position of having to get rid of (somehow!) a set of flares that expire next month and replace them with a new set for next season. If I had been in UK waters, I would have hung onto the old flares as "backup".

As a matter of interest the cost of flares seems to be one of the few things boaty that is cheaper in France than the UK. A coastal set in the UK is around £85 and in France about 75 euros. As for almost anything else, forget it, UK is much cheaper.

I did witness the gendarmes going over a UK flagged vessel this past summer. It was a classic "dawn raid" (well just after breakfast actually) with guns very obvious - all very dramatic. Never did find out what they were after as the owners were not on board at the time - possibly drugs but I doubt it as the owners were still around and very evident later in the season and plan to be there next season.

 

[jsl]

And do you have any further info on the out-of-date-liferaft question?

 

[Cloven]

Sorry no!!. and apologies for drifting away from the original question. I don't carry a liferaft so have not looked into this part of any legislation.

 

[philip_stevens]

I emailed a French friend, and he came back with this - I quote

"...these are just some thoughts and my knowledge is limited, possibly wrong and in any case just not the law...

Difficult matter and am not sure if there is really a "correct" understanding of this case.

Davewarburton post from today 10h00 seems correct and as tabernacle_man pointed out : French Flagged vessels must conform to French legislation and carry equipment as specified for the class of vessel, ie mirror, lead line, emergency flags. etc and that foreign vessels must conform to their own nationality requirements.

But I would never guess of what would be the position of the "officials" i.e Customs (Douanes) (normally not involved), or "Affaires Maritimes" and "Gendarmerie Maritime"

Present rules in France are that you need a life raft if you sail more than 6 miles from a "shelter". Within the 6 miles range from a shelter, if you do not need a life raft you do need however some other items (there is an official list)... On my Centaur, I am within the rules if I sail with my Avon tender (even if not inflated...) if less than 6 miles from a shelter.

However, I doubt that a UK resident with a UK flagged vessel based in France could avoid a life raft when out of this 6 miles rule... I will raise the case on my favourite forum...

Will also ask about the flares, which is also a funny case which is often discussed here as it is a bit of a mess:

You are not entitled to keep out of date flares on board: TRUE, even if you have (and MUST have) "in date" flares on board and you might be fined for that ("out of date" flares on board)

How can you get rid of the old flares? Ask different official administrations (Customs, Affaires Maritimes, Gendarmerie Maritime) in different locations, you will get different answers!

Once again, matter is well discussed on french forums and it's very funny to learn how people react, keeping them on board (officially, when "in dates" = flares, if "out of date" = explosives, that you are not entitle to keep on board, or in your house, or transport by road...) or get rid as fireworks on 14th of July, or using them against moles in their garden.. There is not yet any official place to give back your old flares, and this is official, so it's a well know grey area and am not aware of any people being fined having kept old flares.

You could also add that one comment I got from my side is that this might be true : it's the flag legislation which is valid : a French man who gets a ship under Belgium flag (there are numerous) and the ship being in France, the Belgium rules are valid, and life raft is no obligation !"

 

[jsl]

This is really helpful: thanks for all the effort. And yet the original question - Is it illegal for a British visiting yacht to carry an out-of-date liferaft? - is still open, I think. The analogy with flares may well be valid, if only for the reason that a liferaft carries flares - or at least I think it does.

 

[tabernacleman]

hi, still not been in touch with RYA yet but thought I would mention that Life rafts in France have a life of 13 years, after that, in the bin!!! which leads me to think that UK law applies to uk flagged vessel, because I believe I can have an elderly raft certified in the UK but the Duane would 'have me' if I was French Flag. By the way, the Duane patrol very regularly and do a thorough job when they 'visit' you, and if they do, ask them for a 'paper slip' so if you get another visit close to the first you can 'show the slip'.