Liferafts: hire vs. buy

[Kelpie]

Can anybody tell me how the costs stack up for hiring and servicing liferafts?
I've tried to do this myself but am finding very few prices online. From what I've seen, it seems as though hiring a LR for one month a year could work out cheaper than owning one.

What does the panel think?

 

[sailorman]

Can anybody tell me how the costs stack up for hiring and servicing liferafts?
I've tried to do this myself but am finding very few prices online. From what I've seen, it seems as though hiring a LR for one month a year could work out cheaper than owning one.

What does the panel think?

servicing will depend on replacement consumable items
my old 6 man raft serviced each year varied from £90 > £230 the last service had the cylinder tested
the new raft is 3 yr servicing so all the consumables will need replacing so a more expensive service buy has to be divided by 3 to get a similar figure.
you may only need to hire for 4>5 months

 

[johnalison]

There's a lot to be said for hiring if your cruising is only for a few weeks and I know people who do this. It doesn't work for us oldies who have more time away.

 

[DavidGrieves]

I have used Norwest Marine before for hire and for servicing. I think the last service was a 3 yr service costing about £220 ish?

Web site here:-

http://www.norwestmarine.co.uk/shop/Life_Raft_Hire.html

 

[ukmctc]

Can anybody tell me how the costs stack up for hiring and servicing liferafts?
I've tried to do this myself but am finding very few prices online. From what I've seen, it seems as though hiring a LR for one month a year could work out cheaper than owning one.

What does the panel think?

You can pick a life raft up cheap, but services can cost £150 just for a check and then if anything needs replacing it can add up to almost double that. The cost of a new raft ranges from £500 up, then after 3-4 years it has tobe serviced.

I found the best way is buy an ex hire raft, all fully serviced, mine was £200 for a 6 man. If your not onboard all year and only doing the odd big sail for a couple of weeks or a month or two, renting might be a good way to go, otherwise your paying for something that may never be used in anger. I think it depends on your needs or what you think you need.

 

[sailorman]

You can pick a life raft up cheap, but services can cost £150 just for a check and then if anything needs replacing it can add up to almost double that. The cost of a new raft ranges from £500 up, then after 3-4 years it has tobe serviced.

I found the best way is buy an ex hire raft, all fully serviced, mine was £200 for a 6 man. If your not onboard all year and only doing the odd big sail for a couple of weeks or a month or two, renting might be a good way to go, otherwise your paying for something that may never be used in anger. I think it depends on your needs or what you think you need.

i wonder how many seago`s are hired out

 

[Tranona]

i wonder how many seago`s are hired out

Owning becomes much more sensible if you are buying the cheaper ones - hiring was better when rafts were 3 times the price in real terms than they are now. If you want a liferaft all season, buy one, of just for a week or two, rent.

 

[Kelpie]

I was quite concerned by the recent ST group test of liferafts, where all of the cheaper ones (sub about £800) were found wanting.
When you hire, do you usually get a better quality LR?

 

[brokethebox]

I've been doing some research into this lately for work, and i'm finding that i can easily hire for a lot less than my current annual service costs. I've no idea how manufacturers/ suppliers can afford this, but i'm talking a saving of £300 per raft for a 20 man.

Any thoughts?

J

 

[Tranona]

I was quite concerned by the recent ST group test of liferafts, where all of the cheaper ones (sub about £800) were found wanting.
When you hire, do you usually get a better quality LR?

Two of the major failures of liferafts recently (failure to inflate for real) have been "high quality" hire rafts. Although the swimming pool tests suggest that some rafts may not perform well, there is very little empirical evidence to support this - mainly because so few of any type have been deployed from small craft. In one recent incident the report commented favourably on the performance of the Seago liferaft. Did exactly what it should, but it was new (bought for the trip), it was deployed as part of a planned evacuation when the boat was still afloat and conditions were relatively benign. If you look at most of the reports of deployment you find that few rafts are trouble free, not necessarily because they are "bad" but because of the situation and severe conditions.

Not sure that helps, because the chances of you having to use it are just about zero, so having one on board is more an act of faith rather than a rational decision, so it is difficult to use rational decision making criteria. Before such things were available cheaply, nobody bothered and there is no real evidence either that it was more dangerous then than now, or rather there were more foundering incidents then. I am talking about the last 40 or 50 years since coastal and offshore sailing has become popular. It is the dramatic fall in price that has led to the growth in usage, not an increase in the need.

 

[Robin]

The idea that a liferaft will only be needed on a longer cruise and so just rent one for the annual hols is IMO a little flawed. I think it is also wrong that people assume a liferaft will only be needed during the perfect storm scenario. Unless you sail long distances offshore then the survival storm is unlikely to be a reason for needing a raft, more likely is a collision either with another vessel or with a submerged object maybe or in the case of fire on board. If you then re-visit the case for buying or renting it becomes one of renting for your entire season afloat versus buying your own.

Then again, do you really need one anyway for local cruising if you have another immediate means of escape and help is nearer to hand, but provided that other means is immediately available to launch as perhaps a dinghy carried on deck or in davits. Again that assumes that with modern communications and forecasting you are not planning on doing a Liquid wotsit and setting out with a F10 in the forecast.

We had our own rafts on our last two boats, so for 25 years almost. Before then it was the half inflated Avon doughnut carried on deck. Now we are in the USA with a big mobo but our cruising will never be more than 60mls from land somewhere and usually very much less. Factor in the unbelievable cost of rafts in the USA, the even more unbelievable cost of servicing them and the fact that we have a 3.5m RIB with a 15hp Yamaha all ready to launch from on the sundeck roof and you might understand why we will have an automatic fire extinguisher system, an epirb and plbs but not a specific raft.

 

[Tranona]

more likely is a collision either with another vessel or with a submerged object maybe or in the case of fire on board.

Then again, do you really need one anyway for local cruising if you have another immediate means of escape and help is nearer to hand, but provided that other means is immediately available to launch as perhaps a dinghy carried on deck or in davits.

The available stats (for UK and Ireland at least) do not support that. There has only been one reported evacuation because of fire - plenty of boats (relatively) catching fire, but in harbour or at anchor. Collisions with debris are surprisingly rare (at least reported ones) but not unknown. Most of the collisions with ships are catastrophic and the yacht is destroyed, although there are one or two well known incidents such as the Moody that hit a container ship where the yacht stayed afloat long enough for all the crew to take to the raft - but it was flat calm and (foggy) daylight. Apart from that nearly all of the deployments from leisure craft (including racing boats) have been as a consequence of structural failure, severe weather conditions or both, and the performance of rafts has been variable.

Your point about the need for rescue in local cruising is well made. It is very difficult to sink a yacht and good communications plus rescue services seem to be able to deal with most incidents successfully. Not sure about the value of being able to launch a dinghy - if the conditions are severe enough to overwhelm a yacht, don't think a dinghy would be much good. Although there are of course examples of individuals using dinghies and they would likely have some value in a planned evacuation in benign conditions.

 

[Kelpie]

Didn't want this thread to turn into a 'do I need a LR' discussion, however just to fill in- we're planning a trip to Faroe next year which takes us over 100nm from land, and well outside of VHF range- so the idea of a LR seems prudent (as well as an EPIRB or PLB).

 

[Robin]

Didn't want this thread to turn into a 'do I need a LR' discussion, however just to fill in- we're planning a trip to Faroe next year which takes us over 100nm from land, and well outside of VHF range- so the idea of a LR seems prudent (as well as an EPIRB or PLB).

In your case and with the reasonable cost of rafts in the UK I would buy one.

The available stats (for UK and Ireland at least) do not support that. There has only been one reported evacuation because of fire - plenty of boats (relatively) catching fire, but in harbour or at anchor. Collisions with debris are surprisingly rare (at least reported ones) but not unknown. Most of the collisions with ships are catastrophic and the yacht is destroyed, although there are one or two well known incidents such as the Moody that hit a container ship where the yacht stayed afloat long enough for all the crew to take to the raft - but it was flat calm and (foggy) daylight. Apart from that nearly all of the deployments from leisure craft (including racing boats) have been as a consequence of structural failure, severe weather conditions or both, and the performance of rafts has been variable.

Getting caught by severe weather in home waters IMO should not be a high risk with modern communications and forecasts. As for fire being a liferaft evacuation reason, I personally know of two, one was a big wooden mobo off Ushant where we were just 8mls away and listening to the drama, crew picked up from the raft and the other a YC race start boat in Poole Bay that caught fire and again they took to the raft albeit the fire was extinguished. Possibly in these cases (one in French waters but a British boat, the other a mere local incident) the reports were not included in statistics.

Your point about the need for rescue in local cruising is well made. It is very difficult to sink a yacht and good communications plus rescue services seem to be able to deal with most incidents successfully. Not sure about the value of being able to launch a dinghy - if the conditions are severe enough to overwhelm a yacht, don't think a dinghy would be much good. Although there are of course examples of individuals using dinghies and they would likely have some value in a planned evacuation in benign conditions.

Again I'm thinking more in terms of incidents not in severe weather which in home waters I see as mostly avoidable or a raft not required anyway because timing to rescue was shorter. In those cases (even perhaps the Wahkuna one) a ready inflated dinghy on deck or in davits would be an alternative. In our case now (47ft mobo with an unsinkable RIB in chocks on the sundeck and crane wires already attached) the dinghy option would be pretty good, we could even motor towards help since the engine is permanently fitted as is the fuel tank.

I'm not proposing a dinghy as a substitute for a proper raft, just that it would fill that role in some circumstances. For us it was the only option we had for nearly half our cruising life. A raft is for after all other options have failed, IMO (and it is just an opinion) where it is most difficult to employ other options is in the collision or fire scenarios.

 

[Tranona]

Didn't want this thread to turn into a 'do I need a LR' discussion, however just to fill in- we're planning a trip to Faroe next year which takes us over 100nm from land, and well outside of VHF range- so the idea of a LR seems prudent (as well as an EPIRB or PLB).

Was really responding to the bit about different "qualities" and pointing out that the evidence does not show significant differences. The EPIRB makes sense as it potentially shortens the rescue time and improves the chances of being found, which minimizes the time in a raft. Very few raft incidents involve long periods in the raft - although of course there are exceptions. Most of the "problems" often highlighted in the "tests", and as you will discover when you do your survival course (if you have not done it already) are related to actually launching and boarding the raft. This is where there has been a lot of work in improving stability on launch and particularly boarding methods.

Personally, I would buy my own and concentrate on the user friendly aspects of the design. Familiarising yourself and crew with what the raft looks like when it is deployed and having a go in the pool is probably more useful than trying to figure out whether one raft is better than another. Doing the survival course should convince you that you never want to get into a position of needing to do it for real!

 

[Fascadale]

Didn't want this thread to turn into a 'do I need a LR' discussion, however just to fill in- we're planning a trip to Faroe next year which takes us over 100nm from land, and well outside of VHF range- so the idea of a LR seems prudent (as well as an EPIRB or PLB).

I've hired a LR twice: bringing the boat when I first got it from Cardiff to the West Coast and a couple of years later to cross and recross the North Sea

Were I crossing from Lewis to Faroe I would hire one.

 

[brokethebox]

Like i said before, i'm not entirely up top speed on the hire costs for the smaller rafts you'll need but the service costs (an annual outlay for me) are higher than hiring for a year.

Its becoming a no brainer, and ive spent quite a long time lately talking to every manufacturer out there.

J

 

[ukmctc]

Having and using a dinghy as a raft as stated would also work, its only a raft without a tent, and other bits but in an emergency it would do.
For your trip you could even borrow one, just add it to the insurance incase you loose it or use it. There are plenty of boats in marinas who are more catalogue sailors, and will gladly lend you theirs, just to say a bit of their boat actually went somewhere.