Liferaft Recommendation

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LWR

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I'm looking for a 6 or 8 man liferaft - can anybody recommend something - between the Plastimos/Seagos/Zodiacs/Avons, it is difficult to make a decision.

My cruising ground is mainly South Coast, Solent and Channel Crossings.

Thanks,

LWR
 
Go and do the sea survival course. Then you'll have a much better idea of what to look for in a liferaft. The course is good fun too.
 
I'd love to go on a sea survival course - just can't get on one between now and when I want to join some friends on a channel crossing. Unfortunately the liferaft will need to come first...
 
I have no doubt what to go for - a self righting Viking in either 6 or 8 man.

A self righting raft can save your life. It is not easy to turn one right way up in any sort of sea - you can do it in a swimming pool but in any sort of sea out in the real world, you would have major problems.

Also the company is simply great to deal with - a very honest pro set up.

beware there are some cheap self righting ones around you should be careful about.
 
Assumptions:
1 private yachting only, not charter or coreprat entertainment - for which you need SOLAS kit.
2 you don't mind new or used.
3 you usually have 6 to 8 persons on board.

A liferaft which is underloaded is much bouncier than a loaded one, and colder. So if a lot of your sailing is with, say, 4 persons, then buy a couple of 4 man liferafts, and use both with a fuller complement.

Secondhand. Depends on the age,and the service history. Regular servicing is VIP, but I have 2 quality used 6 man liferafts less than 3 yrs old for the price of one new one.

Equipment. The internal kit comes at many different levels. Even if you go for the "Gold" standard, you can/should have a grab bag which is deployable at the same time. In this you put: spare car keys, handheld VHF, documentation backup copies, spare contact lenses / medication, what have you. It's your own survival kit. Lots of previous posts on the subject; have a search.

Construction. You get what you pay for, but even in the Channel a double floor is a must. Ease of turning over, ballast pockets, boarding ladders, external lights, reflecting tape all vary according to the spec. Some are genuinely self-righting,

Valise or container. Depends where you are going to stow them / it. If you have access to a dry locker in the cockpit, a valise is OK, but a permanent location really requires a container, and thought given to the locking (for when in harbour), or manual /automatic deployment.

Training. This in the opinion of a lot of people, is a real benefit. Familiarity with the deployment procedure, turning over, boarding, mental attitude when on board, lookout, hypothermia, etc, is invaluable. Lots of sources available, but it can be costly.

Origin. Chinese is cheap but effective. You may wish to consider the ethical implications of buying from a far eastern company, even one with local UK service centres. The "UK" companies (Avon, Cosalt, Viking) tend to be expensive because they tend to be specced for the Services, commercial and fishing. They are certainly built to a very high standard, as are many of the European ones.

Hope you never have to use one /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
As time is short, why don't you rent one for the trip.

Then do the course and decide what you want to buy.
 
I am not sure that doing the course will really help a lot with life raft choice.

Surely just common sense such as insulated floor, self righting, good robust method of entry into the raft - not a simple rope ladder etc are universal good points to look for?

When i did the course the examiners did not really understand all the different life raft options available and the choice of raft did not form part of the course.

There is even a tendency to shy away from discussing the pros and cons of life rafts.

I feel strongly about the subject because I beleive that to compromise on one, should you ever need it, is not the right thing to do. I would want to know that should I need it the raft will present itself upright, have a good robust means of entering - not a silly rope ladder, have an insulated floor and prefrably two entrances - one on each side. Apart from that it should be well made by a reputable company and last, with regular servicing say every 3 years for a very long time. Ths really about it ......... is there really much more?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure that doing the course will really help a lot with life raft choice

[/ QUOTE ] Yes it will. If you choose one of the larger colleges like Warsash they have several permanently inflated so you can see at first hand what you get for your money. You can also see how effective the extra underwater pockets are on the more expensive rafts etc. Finally you learn how to use one - probably the most important bit. I was paired up with a 70 year old active grandmother who didn't have a problem getting into the raft using the webbing strap ladder whilst wearing an inflated life jacket. Mine? an Avon Coastline, bought second hand and serviced annually, but then I am not crossing oceans.

Pete
 
But most courses, if any don't show you all the makes and how many show you self righting life rafts? My guess is none.

If you had available on any course a selection that covered all the options then i would agree but that is not the case. What you may have is a selection that is just what somebody stocks and even that is rare.

Where you offered a try of a Viking self righting?

IMHO there is really nowt to compare with them in every department and I have no commercial gain from advising that.

I do agree that you should learn how to use one and that a survival course is a good thing etc. I agree with all that but the basic advice on life raft choice is do you want one that is the simplest and best for getting into - one that self rights etc and whilst a given course may show you a small selection of life rafts with major faults, I wonder how many show you the Viking which really stands out head and shoulders above the rest?

A sea survival course is not a life raft demo - and the chances of anyone gaining much knowledge about life raft choice apart from how terrible it is to use a bad life raft - is very limited.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Where you offered a try of a Viking self righting?

[/ QUOTE ] No.
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO there is really nowt to compare with them in every department

[/ QUOTE ] but they are twice the price of the range LWR was asking about, and he stated that its for coastal hoping and cross channel stuff, rather than ocean passages.
[ QUOTE ]
one that self rights etc

[/ QUOTE ] why? personally I very much doubt that I will ever be taking to the liferaft in the middle of a storm. Far more likely is the boat sinking or on fire.
[ QUOTE ]
A sea survival course is not a life raft demo - and the chances of anyone gaining much knowledge about life raft choice apart from how terrible it is to use a bad life raft - is very limited.

[/ QUOTE ] Using one in a swimming pool is as close to the real thing as you are going to get - given that the senarios course organisers run have to be safe. What are the other options, looking at one in a boat show? What was so bad about a liferaft? Given a bit of imagination that your boat has just sunk, I for one would be quite happy to sit still for 6 hours whilst help arrives. Yes peeps are going to be seasick, tired, hungry and frightened. Its cramped (its supposed to be, empty rafts tip over) but <u>you will live</u> regardless of the type. A positive strong attitiude probably more important than the water in a liferaft, somewhat "to the right" of Capt Bligh should be aimed for /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pete
 
It really makes no difference if its the channel or Ocean - its very, very difficult and dangerous to right a life raft in any sort of sea.

Given that there is about a 50/50 chance of it being the wrong way up and almost useless, I would think self righting has to be the way to go.

"why? personally I very much doubt that I will ever be taking to the liferaft in the middle of a storm. Far more likely is the boat sinking or on fire."

Even an f3 can mean its dangerous to be getting into the water - I am not talking of storms.

You were not offered the choice of life rafts on the course and the course does not demo all types - its pointless asking someone to wait for the course when at best all they are offered is a sales pitch for a few makes and those exclude the best.

I think both spray hoods on life jackets and life rafts that will reliably work are two essential safety requireents. frankly, some of the cheaper rafts are more like bent lilo beds rather than life rafts.

"Using one in a swimming pool is as close to the real thing as you are going to get - given that the senarios course organisers run have to be safe. "

Toally accepted but that does not change my point - righting a raft in the real sea with waves and a boat to bang your head on etc is nowhere near the same - so its best to avoid haviung to do that.

I waould also agree that a postive strong attitide is critical but ythat is not the point - sitting inside a life raft with such an attitude is better than hanging onto an upside down one with such an attitude. Having good equipment does not exclude having postive attitide. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have just done the course last week.

Very informative and I learnt loads...but I still couldn't choose a good raft.

They are a bit like a boat in that if you tried a few different ones in a few different scenarios I am sure you find pro and con. To me this is the value of the forum that says "I used a xxx brand and it was easy to get in/out".

The boarding ladder comment is a good one...but which raft has a "good" ladder...god knows.

Other things that came out were quality of supplied kit, put your own kit inside, visit the service station and insulated floor. Another important point was valise is a nice idea but when the raft gets thrown around or lifted regularly the raft gets worn and holed...not good!!!!

I posted a similar question a few months ago and got a similar theme "go on the course".

I have a better idea of what to expect but no real way to compare rafts. There is only so much you can learn from looking at web page photos.

The raft used on our course was the cheapest, lightest bit of crap...which was fair enough because it gets used loads and the instructor has to carry it!!!

To me to know what brand has got the following is invaluable:
--self righting
--good built in drogue/floor weights
--easy boarding
--insulated floor
--decent rubber (rafts are designed for 8 hours live use!!!!!!)
--no flares - just parachute rockets (flares spit hot sparks that burn rubber!!!) but see note below
--sensible money
--I don't really care about the kit because you can replace all that with decent branded stuff if you want...
--have I missed anything????!!!!!
 
You make my point for me.

Viking make huge life rafts for hundreds of people.

IMHo they produce a real life raft built very well and designed to be used - I have a video of one in 30 foot waves that does not spin!

They have all the features you ask for and are not that much more expensive - IMHO everything else is false economy.

You are taught on the course to board the liferaft at the last minute dry.

If a raft inflates upside down - you have to tie someone to the boat who has to then jump in and right it and to do that in the real cold, real waves with a bloody big boat right alongside ready to colbber them ........ that is a very dangerous thing to do.

The course does not teach or demo life raft choice. that a fact.
 
Next month's PBO apparently has a feature on "cheap" liferafts. They pose the question: Is it better to have a cheap raft plus an EPIRB or an expensive raft and no EPIRB?

I have been asking myself the same question, so I await the magazine with baited breath...

Cheers,

Jerry
 
Nope, still not convinced you need the top of the range kit for wondering up and down the coast in good weather, but happy that everyone ultimately will have there own opionions.

Yep you get what you pay for, but the difference might be used for a second box of flares, spare vhf etc, or even a slap up meal /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Pete
 
Ok - I think that the water is just as wet 5 miles out as 100 miles out in this case he wants it for channel crossings etc and he has listed expensive makes that may not be self righting. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifwe just have to agree to disagree. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
i spoke to liferaft service guy and recomended avon and plastimo, not seago, in his opinion had seen better construction and materials on beach lilo's...usually get what you pay for
 
If you want to cruise the south coast and Chanel, you are better off in a boat. Lifrafts are only good for drifting around in, however we are fortunate in the Uk by having pretty fast tidal streams so you could travel great distances on the average week-eng. One of the problems associated with travelling around in a liferaft is where to fit an outboard. This problem can be solved by adjusting on of the Avon outboard attachements which mounts over ther tubing. Keep a spare paddle handy to help yoy get back to the mooring at closing time.
 
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