Liferaft, Canister or Valise

Norman_E

Norman_E

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I have to replace my liferaft, will sell the old 10 man raft because it is too big, and buy a 4 man. Talking to an experienced yachtsman in the marina I suggested that I would get a canister model and fit it too the rail in a holder. He said that in his experience a valise kept in a locker was better, because it would not risk getting wet. In his experience canister liferafts were more prone to get rusty gas cylinders and other problems because they had more exposure to the elements.
 
A 4 man raft on a 45' boat seems a bit parsimonious! The functional aspect is the ability to get the thing into the water and inflated. If you are confident that you can carry the valise on deck and launch it then fine but a canister mounted outside the pushpit may be easier. It's horses for courses with trade-offs.
 
This is almost impossible to answer by vote. What sort of boat? Is there room on the rail? Would it get in the way? Would the weight so far aft be a problem. Is there a suitable locker for the valise?

We have had valise and cannister liferafts. When we bought a valise one, it was because there was a dedicated locker for the liferaft in the cockpit. When we bought a boat with a liferaft cradle on the deck, we had it repacked into a cannister...

Which is best for you and your boat?
 
Modern liferafts in a canister are sealed in a vacuum packed plastic bag, so it is difficult to see how they are going to get rusty.

IMHO size of liferaft is a function of the maximum number of people normally carried plus extra if you relatively frequently exceed that total. You then need to take into account the area where the liferaft may be deployed. A small liferaft where you are packed like sardines is good when it is cold and rough, but would be a total PITA in a hot climate.

BTW I can do you a deal on a second hand 8 man Avon Ocean in a canister.
 
I have a 6 man canister liferaft that I will mount on the pushpit.

I do have a locker in the cockpit that I could store a Valise type but I think I would have difficulity in getting it out in a storm when needed and SWMBO would not so I mounted for easy launch.
 
So far the maximum number on board has been three, and is unlikely to be more than four, possibly five. I have also been advised that liferafts should be filled to capacity (or even overfilled) to avoid the occupants being thrown about inside. The ten man valise I have is simply too heavy to lift out of the locker, and would probably be dangerous with only a few people in it. I could rail mount a canister, though I would prefer not to, and I can lift a four or six man valise. The other items kept in the locker are lightweights that I can easily chuck out of the way. I am just wondering if the extra cost of the canister and its mountings are worth it.
 
We have a four man cannister mounted on pushpit, we decided that this was the best place to keep it so that either of us could easily deploy. As Talbot says LRs come vacuum packed so no probs with water ingress.

FWIW, LR used to live on foredeck, behind mast, but moved it 'cos it could get swept off the deck in extremis.
 
Norman
As posters have said it's horses for courses but I would consider the weight hanging on the rail, security (will it get nicked) etc.
Valise always seem to be the preferred option of yotties because they can be stowed out of the way and removed from the boat when not needed, that doesn't mean to say that canister types are inferior - most commercial boats including angling boats have canister types because they have to conform to various regs re automatic deployment using hydrostatic charges.

I would suggest that if you have the locker space you choose a valise type.

Peter.
 
We have a 4 man valise packed liferaft which lives inside the boat in a locker adjacent to the companionway. Is no problem to lift out of the locker and heave up into the cockpit, is secure, out of the way, and lives a cool (no sun beating down on its container turning it into an oven) and pampered life.

Would do exactly the same again myself on a cruising boat (NB Race boats built after 06/2001 needing to comply with ISAF Special Regulations CAT 0, 1, or 2 can't store the raft below decks).

John
 
We have a six man valise that lives on the top shelf of our cockpit locker and it can very easily get obstructed by fenders and warps etc. Having lifted the raft out, when tied up alongside, I very much doubt that swmbo could deploy it in a seaway, but then fear can be quite a motivator! On balance, I think I will choose a canister next time around.
 
Experienced yachtsman eh?

Had he ever been run suddenly down at night or in the fog, had an explosion on board, or had a fire or other incident that prevented him getting to and deploying the valise buried in the locker?

My experience suggests that canister rafts are designed to get wet, and the servicing reigeme is there to check if that causes a problem.

Finally, deck mounted with a correctly installed hydrostatic release is what you and your crew really deserve. If it is on the back rail you run the risk of having some difficulty deploying it manually as they are a pig to handle when dry and in calm waters, bl00dy imposible reaching over a back rail in a swell.

If you don't suffer any of the horrors outlined at the start of this reply, but the ship is sinking before help arrives, a calm orderly transfer when the decks are awash are what you should be aiming for. The stern will almost certainly go first unless you have watertight compartments, in which case a deck mounted raft that can be deployed from up front is easiest to manage.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

Would agree with most of what you say but on back all you have to do is pull out one pin and in she drops (we don't have a hydrostatic release but the same principle applies). Same fitting has padlock on it for security on mooring.

Trouble as I see it with deck mounted is getting to it in a seaway and it being knocked off by a big wave (and plenty have, read Heavy Weather sailing the account of delivery skipper who lost his LR in the North Sea in 1987 hurricane).
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

I also agree, which is why I chose a canister.

It may not be me (with the energy of panic!) hoicking it up out of the quarter berth - it may be my wife or child. I reckon collision and fire are the biggest dangers, and in both of these cases one is better off with the raft on deck. I cannot fit it aft, and it is alongside the mast in my case.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

[ QUOTE ]
Would agree with most of what you say but on back all you have to do is pull out one pin and in she drops (we don't have a hydrostatic release but the same principle applies). Same fitting has padlock on it for security on mooring.

Trouble as I see it with deck mounted is getting to it in a seaway and it being knocked off by a big wave (and plenty have, read Heavy Weather sailing the account of delivery skipper who lost his LR in the North Sea in 1987 hurricane).

[/ QUOTE ]
I curious that you think the rail is any more secure. I would say that a rail-mounted cannister was more vulnerable than a deck-mounted one.

My choice is to store a cannister in the lazarette as I feel the extra security outweighs the additional effort required to launch it.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

There is a catch with hydrostatic releases on small vessels which makes their use questionable (but not necessarily making their use totally unwise). By the time the release works you will be swimming yourself and unless the conditions are quite calm you will be unlikely to be able to catch the liferaft as it blows away faster than a swimmer in (or even without) a lifejacket.

Recent cases here of smaller commercial vessels being lost where it is believed that the vessel sank quickly and the liferaft has been deployed hydrostatically (as is required by regulation) has meant the raft being found but unfortunately no one in it.

So, perhaps the main lesson from that is that if you have a hydrostatic release use every endeavour to manually deploy the liferaft and not regard the release as anything other than a last resort. They may prove to be a liability in a capsizing yacht as well.

John
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

I should have said rear mounted rather than rail mounted, it sits in cradle that is bolted to the transom. The reason for a transom mount is that a wave coming from behind will to some extent have its speed reduced because by definition you will be running at the time and with our slim stern we have never been pooped even in some quite big seas (the waves tend to split as they encounter the stern). If beating or reaching the waves don't see the transom anyway.

OTOH, if foredeck mounted, a beat will the wave will be rushing towards the deck moving in the other direction and on a reach the there is the potential for a wave to sweep across the deck.
 
There\'s another catch....

If deck mounted there is always a risk that it may be snag as it heads for the surface (capsized or not) and be carried down with the vessel, though they are a slippery shape for a good reason.

However, it is far better located there for controlled deployment than hanging off the backrail, broadside on and far more vulnerable to being carried away by a big-un. Stern rails regularly get carried away in storms by weight of water on dodgers or lifebuoys.

With the tangle of lines that inevitably follow a liferaft deployment, I'm afraid I wouldn't want that anywhere near my stern gear, just in case the yacht remains a better option than the raft, an accidental deployment could scupper that one.

The questioner probably doesn't need to share my other concern of weight hanging off the back however, which is seldom a great idea - relative to overall size of the vessel.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

Sometimes there may be another option for a canister. My boat has a removable cockpit thwart, under which a canister raft fits very nicely secured to the sole in a s/s pushpit cradle. It lacks the vulnerability of a coachroof or pulpit mounting but is easily accessible by pulling back two bolts and tossing the thwart overboard.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

Ah - that's a different matter. If our transom were large enough to mount the liferaft there I would seriously consider it - although it's vulnerability to damage in a marina etc would be a bit worrying.
 
Re: Experienced yachtsman eh?

I would urge caution about deployment from the rear. All raft equipment is tied on so you can haul it aboard after it has all been shaken out.

The sea anchor and rescue quoit are particularly on long lines. When I specc'ed my raft I noted the importance of a knife to cut the sea anchor free in case of fouling, and a spare sea anchor and line.

I'd prefer not to let a raft go anywhere near the stern if I could help it.

I can't agree that a raft well installed flat to the deck is any less secure than one broadside on to a green-un, mounted on a flimsy aft rail.

Rails get carried away all the time, and did in '87 when liferafts on aft rails weren't realy in vogue 'cos yachts didn't have such fat ar5e5 as they do these days!
 
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