Liferaft Advice Please

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dewent

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Looking to purchase a new 4 man life raft.

No room on pushpit and don't want to affix to cabin top. Decided to go for the valise style rather than canister. We are pretty careful sailors so will plan to lash the valise to a guardrail when at sea rather than leave it at the bottom of locker.

We mainly do UK coastal sailing but aspire to do a few longer trips in a couple of years time - Scandanavia or down to the Med.

I have been looking at the Ocean Safety Charter liferaft - its not too expensive - thinking that on longer passages I would just plan to carry a well stocked grab bag.

Does this sound a reasonable strategy?
 
Valise rafts are designed to be stowed in a locker. They are vulnerable to puncture and not very waterproof so they are likely to be continually full of seawater, not the best thing for the steel CO2 cylinder for example. If you want to mount it on the rail, get a canister.
 
dewent said:
Looking to purchase a new 4 man life raft.

No room on pushpit and don't want to affix to cabin top. Decided to go for the valise style rather than canister. We are pretty careful sailors so will plan to lash the valise to a guardrail when at sea rather than leave it at the bottom of locker.

We mainly do UK coastal sailing but aspire to do a few longer trips in a couple of years time - Scandanavia or down to the Med.

I have been looking at the Ocean Safety Charter liferaft - its not too expensive - thinking that on longer passages I would just plan to carry a well stocked grab bag.

Does this sound a reasonable strategy?
Click to expand...

You say no room on pushpit, we didn't have any room on ours and we had a metal semi-cage made up that butted up to the pushpit at the back and that's where the liferaft, in a cannister, lives, if that makes sense.
 
ChrisE,

the problem with our pushpit is, from port side:

gate
combined radar/backstay produces an arc that would prevent a cage
outboard bracket (welded)
davit/crane

hence no room for a cradle
 
Went for the Seago 4 man valise last year, seemed good VFM. It lives under the chart table whilst at sea and is light enough to chuck into the cockpit if there is an emergency. Much lighter than the Avon 6 man it replaced.

Pete
 
Another thing against rafts on pushpits is that unless you build an additional framework its weight is likely to overstress the pushpit. Just imagine all that weight wrenching back and forth as you go over a lumpy sea. Our pushpit has been loosened by years of having a six-man cannister strapped to it for charter purposes before we bought the boat.

Best option is a valise raft in a purpose-built or luckily-placed locker that's shallow and contains nothing else (or perhaps a few other pieces of emergency equipment). Next best is a cannister in a cradle on deck. Valise raft quickly accessible below decks is third, and valise stuffed away in a deep locker is barely better than leaving it ashore.

Pete
 
dewent said:
Pete, whats the valise made of? Is it reasonable tough? Would it be showerproof if on deck whilst at sea?
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You're not planning to sail if it's raining, then? :)

The material itself is probably waterproof, but it has seams and velcro and maybe zips. It's not suitable for stowing on deck, you need a cannister for that.

Pete
 
When a fellow forumite came onboard for a scuttlebutt rally he brought a valise liferaft - it fitted under the seat at the stern of the cockpit (tiller steering) - as it was a F6 it got soaked ... I hope it survived! But it wasn't where I'd want it stowed all the time.
On our current boat we have a deck level cockpit locker - just inside is the liferaft (valise) - it's been fine there for the last 6 years ... it does take up valuable locker space, but that is the best place for it to be, so that's where it's staying. I wouldn't want it to be further down ..
 
The chances of you actually wanting to use the liferaft are very, very, very slight. Remember those who died in liferafts, when the boats they got off were later found still floating - 79 Fastnet. If it does come to needing to step UP into the liferaft as the boat sinks, there will probably be enough adrenaline in your bloodstream to make getting it up from below, or out of a locker, entirely feasible. Valise rafts are best kept mostly dry. There is no doubt that a canister type on deck is better, but I've done lots of miles on boats with a liferaft stowed below.
 
I would not go with Ocean
I have had an Ocean 4 man liferaft for 9 years & religiously have it serviced on due dates by Premium liferafts of Burnham on Crouch
I think most agree Premium to be V good. They are recognised Ocean service agents but do not really have a good word for Ocean
However, i took my Ocean liferaft in for service mid October & Premium tell me that when they returned the bottle to Ocean for filling Ocean broke something. They are still waiting for the part to come from Italy. I dread to think what the bill will be . You can bet the cost will filter back to me!!
I strongly suggest that of Ocean cannot supply parts quicker than that they are not worth a light
 
jwilson said:
The chances of you actually wanting to use the liferaft are very, very, very slight. Remember those who died in liferafts, when the boats they got off were later found still floating - 79 Fastnet. If it does come to needing to step UP into the liferaft as the boat sinks, there will probably be enough adrenaline in your bloodstream to make getting it up from below, or out of a locker, entirely feasible. Valise rafts are best kept mostly dry. There is no doubt that a canister type on deck is better, but I've done lots of miles on boats with a liferaft stowed below.
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That's certainly true if you envisage "stress of weather" as the main reason for taking to the raft. I don't, though, for the same reason you hint at - if a well-found yacht is in trouble in the conditions, a rubber dinghy with a tent on top has almost no chance. The two main reasons I see for needing a raft are:

  • Uncontrollable fire below, in which case you need the raft quickly accessible on deck, but not necessarily self-launching. See eg those guys on a brand-new motorboat which self-ignited in the Solent a couple of years ago, they went from deck to liferaft in a matter of seconds (well-placed raft) and one of them was still burned on the way.
  • Unexpected collision, especially in fog, a la Ouzo. For this you really need a raft on hydrostatic release, so that when you feel a sudden smash out of nowhere and find yourself in the water, there's a fighting chance of also finding a liferaft busily inflating itself nearby.

As it happens, our own raft is stowed below for lack of sensible places to put it on deck (hatches and running rigging obscure most candidate locations), but if sailing in thick fog and not in shallow water, I like to think I'd put it in the cockpit just in case.

Pete
 
In addition to cost, valise/container, weight I would also consider where you might be sailing e.g. for crossing oceans you might choose to have a more 'superior' one than if just sailing in the solent.

Also, have you thought about ease of getting in to?

Perhaps a sea survival course might also rationalise your thoughts?
 
prv said:
You're not planning to sail if it's raining, then? :)

The material itself is probably waterproof, but it has seams and velcro and maybe zips. It's not suitable for stowing on deck, you need a cannister for that.

Pete
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Not best stored on deck but fine for a trip. Good ones are fine wet. The raft is vacuum packed and sealed.

They are as SL said though more vulnerable to puncture. Particularly from abrasion in the locker.
 
Daydream believer said:
I would not go with Ocean
I have had an Ocean 4 man liferaft for 9 years & religiously have it serviced on due dates by Premium liferafts of Burnham on Crouch
I think most agree Premium to be V good. They are recognised Ocean service agents but do not really have a good word for Ocean
However, i took my Ocean liferaft in for service mid October & Premium tell me that when they returned the bottle to Ocean for filling Ocean broke something. They are still waiting for the part to come from Italy. I dread to think what the bill will be . You can bet the cost will filter back to me!!
I strongly suggest that of Ocean cannot supply parts quicker than that they are not worth a light
Click to expand...

Did they say what make they would recommend?
 
I use a valise liferaft which is kept on deck in a heavy-duty waterproof camping sack during long passages, cross-channel holidays etc. Despite more than a decade of use, service technicians always remark on its excellent condition. Deployment just involves undoing the securing webbing which passes through the loops on the sack, opening the sack, securing the painter and emptying the contents overboard.
 
prv said:
You're not planning to sail if it's raining, then? :)

The material itself is probably waterproof, but it has seams and velcro and maybe zips. It's not suitable for stowing on deck, you need a cannister for that.

Pete
Click to expand...

We had a valise for years, strapped on deck when sailing. Although the outer cover showed signs of wear, the internal vac pack was intact so, raft never got wet.
 
prv said:
Another thing against rafts on pushpits is that unless you build an additional framework its weight is likely to overstress the pushpit. Just imagine all that weight wrenching back and forth as you go over a lumpy sea. Our pushpit has been loosened by years of having a six-man cannister strapped to it for charter purposes before we bought the boat.

Best option is a valise raft in a purpose-built or luckily-placed locker that's shallow and contains nothing else (or perhaps a few other pieces of emergency equipment). Next best is a cannister in a cradle on deck. Valise raft quickly accessible below decks is third, and valise stuffed away in a deep locker is barely better than leaving it ashore.

Pete
Click to expand...

Not sure that this is generic advice, placing a cannister on the deck maybe ok for coastal cruising but for ocean crossings, where there is a chance of a big wave over the deck, pushpit in a purpose built frame is the place to put it.

Read "Heavy Weather Sailing" where a guy crossing the N Sea has his l/r washed off the deck in a storm, if you need convincing.
 
Get a valise, keep it in a locker where you can get to it and lift it out easily.

It's then kept dry and secure, and when you leave the boat it'll be locked and out of sight.

If you need it, it will take no longer to get it out of the locker than to un-lash it from the deck.
 
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