Lifejackets when racing

not quite the way you put it.

Just because I as a fat middle aged bloke of restricted upperbody strength wear a lifejacket does not mean that a fit supple young person of normal strength can wear one.

I agree that it's often easier to wear a buoyancy aid in a dinghy when racing and that some buoyancy is better than none. I just happen to think an LJ is better than a BA.

Some racing sailors might claim they would be disadvantaged if they wore LJs when others did not. So if everyone racing wore them then no-one would be disadvantaged would they.

Fair winds
 
I understand that anyone who flies out to a North Sea oil rig is required to wear a survival suit. Surely it would be safer if anyone who was on the water, in any capacity, was required to wear one all the time as well?

That is the logical extension of your argument. You don't seem to appreciate that different circumstances can call for different types of safety equipment. Or that some "safety" equipment can actually be UNsafe (by creating, for example, entanglement hazards where none existed before), or by significantly interfering with the activity that one is supposed to be engaged in - to the point of making it unmanageable.

In short, your idea is bad and everyone can see that but you.
 
The reference you make to Geoff Houlgraves heroic efforts to save Rob are entirely appropriate. But I think you also actually make one of my main points in your post when you say he had a full time job holding onto Rob.

Perhaps if Rob had been wearing a lifejacket the rope could have been more easily attached and also perhaps Geoff might have been able to hold onto a lifejacket's webbing more easily than a limb.

I do know that its easier to tie a rope around a bit of webbing than a person because the webbing is going to be part of a closed loop and in general I observe that its easier to tie onto a lifejacket and pull soemone than it is to tie onto a buoyancy aid.

On one further point I speculate that it may well be easier to give mouth to mouth in the water to someone wearing a LJ rether than a BA because the LJ tends to leave the chest unbound whereas the BA might tend to be more restrictive of chest expansion due to their typical designs. I only have experience of using mouth to mouth on swimmers(who of course don't wear lifejackets as a rule unless they are divers) and would appreciate anyone whose experience could cast light on this specific point.

Fair winds
 
I have never suggested that gas inflation LJs be worn when racing dinghies.

FWIW the LJs I've worn while sailing dinghies have all been the permanent buoyancy type even when trapezing single-handed on my old 505. OK sometimes when I've not had an LJ available I've worn a BA but I do prefer an LJ.

I don't think even I'd be daft enought to wear an auto LJ on a racing dinghy! Bear off , Prepare to Gybe, Gybe, kite up, DOH"!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Unless of course that was the only one available in which case I'd take out the existing cylinder and replace it with an empty cylinder and a prefired trigger head then partially inflate the LJ by mouth.

PS the actual point of the post was about liability and it would seem to me that possibly some people respond with what their own thoughts have been , rather than carry out a current review of the risks.

Just because someone made a decision some time ago it does not necessarily mean that their decision continues to remain valid or even right.

I have had to re-evaluate my thinking in the light of real experiences (fortunately none fatal) of my crew during the past year. The group of people with whom I sail in company have all agreed to amend their own rules about wearing LJs in the light of our common experiences over the last year.

Fair winds.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is it an offence under health and safety legislation to permit races to take place when the participants are not wearing lifejackets?

I'm thinking particularly of the RYA event last weekend where photos published by the RYA suggest that minors were permitted to race in the events without wearing lifejackets.

With the Olympics coming up and lots of visitors from abroad sailing in competitions from Weymouth should not all events under the auspices of the RYA and or Olympic authorities require all participants to wear lifejackets when afloat?

[/ QUOTE ]

You keep saying everyone missed the point of your original post - so here it is, and here's my reply.

1. "Is it an offence under health and safety legislation to permit races to take place when the participants are not wearing lifejackets? "

NO. In dinghy sailing it is standard practice for the SIs to mandate "adequet buoyancy". So no dinghy races take place without personal floatation, and your point is moot.

In yacht racing the chain of command goes like this.

The individual can decide to wear a lifejacket.
The skipper can decide that all or some of his crew need to be in lifejackets.
The race comittee can fly flag Yankee and make it compulsory.
So I think we're covered.

2. As has been shown the people in the photo you reference were wearing buoyancy, and they were not minors.

As the thread has progressed it became clear that you consider buoyancy aids inadequet for dinghy sailing.
It is also clear that you are entirely alone in holding this opinion.

I very much doubt that you will be able to change anyone's view on this, and clearly your views are set, so perhaps this thread should be left to die now?
 
Methinks you miss the point somewhat. As Mr Spock would say "that is illogical". Extending a point beyond its author's intent is, I would suggest, self defeating as such arguments are not relevant to the point being made.

It seems to me, and there again I could be wrong, that it is suggested that lifejackets seem to create some form of entanglement risk whereas Buoyancy aids do not.

If this is so I'd be interested in evidence to that effect - purely from a personal point of view. I too have had the unpleasant experience of surfacing underneath the mainsail, sometimes wearing an LJ and sometimes wearing a BA, and having to swim under it to reach the open air. But to date I've always been successful.

Are we not at risk of allowing a cheaper alternative to interfere with our duty to others?

It's approaching that time of year when i put all my lifejackets through their annual safety test which means they have to remain properly inflated for three days, those that fail get the knife even the ones for the dinghy which have some permanent buoyancy.

Fair winds
 
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