Lifejackets when racing

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But just because it gets a bit awkward is that a sufficient reason to compromise safety?

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Dinghy racing is a competitive sport. Anything that's "a bit awkward" is going to diminish performance. So there is a balance to find between safety and performance. Any idiot can make something safer; the clever bit is knowing when to stop.
The young fit person is my son, he's been dinghy racing for the last 7 years or so. I have no desire to compromise his safety but I have even less desire to squeeze all the excitement out of his life.
 
I think Vitalman could make snide remarks about any poor soul lost at sea - ever. Maybe he should stick to canal boats or whatever he goes voyaging on ... he doesn't know much about sailing or sailors! .... or maybe this was a troll all along ... yes, that was it - obvious really! .. Silly old us!
 
When I raced dinghies (a Laser) it was on the Bristol Channel, over a course probably over three or four square miles. The rescue boat could be a long time coming, and a bouyancy aid was absolutely vital, and mandatory.

But I was once told to wear it over my spray top, not under, because it was easier to grab hold of if I needed to be pulled out of the water.
 
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But just because it gets a bit awkward is that a sufficient reason to compromise safety?

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I think the point that other posters have been making is that an inflatable lifejacket would actually compromise safety - by making it virtually impossible to get back aboard the dinghy (in circumstances where people EXPECT to end up in the water).

I think Flaming made the distinction between (a) falling off a keelboat - which is an extremely rare event, and one that really amounts to a question of survival and being rescued and (b) falling in from a dinghy - which is a regular event, a matter of incovenience and probably the loss of position in a race but rarely a matter of life and death.

I'm sure with all your experience sailing dinghies you could confirm this - how many times have you fallen in from a keelboat, and how many times from a dinghy?

These two circumstances call for different solutions. I don't know if you just can't see that, or if, having taken a position that LJ are essential on dinghies you feel obliged to defend that position to the end - regardless of the reasoned arguments to the contrary.
 
No no ... perhaps you misunderstood. What I was suggesting was that buoyancy aids were ok for dinghy racing, as opposed to lifejackets, because there are safety boats. The bloke who started this nonsense was suggesting that everyone going sailing should wear lifejackets all the time, regardless of what they were sailing ... his initial post was about dinghy sailors and as I'm sure you'd agree, there's no need to wear a lifejacket when dinghy sailing, especially if you were thinking of capsising more than once! .. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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The Troll is winning

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Aint he though! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Silly buggers the lot of you! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
When windsurfing I used to wear a similar BA to those that the dinghy sailors do, I bet it was originally desgined as one. It also had a harness connection. I would put windsrfing in a similar grouping as dinghy racing, ie likely to get dumped in the wet stuff plus need the ability to be agile around the boat, and the ability to get back on board again.
My insurance required me to wear a BA, not a life jacket. Our club did not recommend life jackets as they were too restrictive and were deamed to possibly cause more problems.
 
THis thread is so symptomatic of what is going wrong in ths country today. A small number of busybodies imposing their wrap in cotton wool attitude on us all regardless of the facts.

IMHO the OP should check his basic facts before trying to ram this garbage down peoples throats. How many dinghy sailors have drowned in the last 5 years because they were knocked out. How many have capsized and sailed back out of trouble when with a LJ they may have been unabvle to right the boat.

The fact that insurance companies have assesed the risk and decided that BA are appropriate should be some comfort - they have to pay out and usually even more safety conscious than idiots like the OP.

The stats (as someone provided on a different thread) indicate that there is no problem.

And as for the rob james argument. How is that relevant to dinghy sailing? - If this was an arguemnt over should LJs been worn on a yacht in the english channel when it's cold then bring it up - It isn't so drag him in.

And finally - your tenuous arguement that you used to wear a LJ whilst dinghy sailing is also of dubious repute. If you're talking about the LJs that I think you mean then you should know that unless they are inflated they are NOT going to turn you face up and therefore should be considered buoyancy aids. If you sailed a dinghy wearing a fully inflated LJ then I would love to see the video!
 
Sailing a modern dinghy with a lifejacket would bring you into more risk than not wearing any buoyancy at all. An inversion wearing a lifejacket would be fatal, sorry IMHO you have never sailed a dinghy and have no real understanding of this topic. Any child sailing a dinghy should wear a buoyancy aid but NOT a lifejacket,
 
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there's no need to wear a life-jacket when dinghy sailing, especially if you were thinking of capsising more than once! .. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I never went out thinking of capsising at all - however the first almost inevitable dunking was always the worst - unless that is, the boat completely inverted and stuck in the mud, thats slightly worse.

IMHO BA's for dingies LJ's for yachts, this is generally the norm in my experience.
 
When dinghy racing at club or nation/international level there will be sufficient safety boats for the number of competitors. Each boat is manned by 2 people and the RYA guidline is to be at the scene of a capsize in 2/3 minutes. One of the SB crew must also be prepared to go into the water to assist if necessary. In which case the RIB crew will also be using bouyancy aids because LJ are too cumbersome when inflated.
 
To be really pedantic, current legislation calls them all lifejackets, though most with common sense recognise the difference between a device that is intended to make life easier for an able bodied person in the water and a device intended to ensure an unconcious person floats face up.

In dinghy sailing ands racing almost every one used a 50 newton device because they aree reconised as the most appropriate device for the activity, a choice also reflected by canoists and windsurfers.

As for your mate falling of the pontoon, would any flotation device have helped him hold on?
 
So what a lot of confusion caused by Vitalman. Interstingly Mills & Hughes were competing in an Olympic qualifier event at Weymouth in the 470 class, so moderately experienced sailors (slight understatement). Womens and Mens started at the same time and my son was therefore racing in the same fleet.
A) to my knowledge there were no Junior or Youth sailors in the fleet
B) buoyancy aids as has been pointed out are compulsory
C) these are often covered over to avoid getting caught - slow for racing but potentially more dangerous when inverted
D) getting traped is a bigger concern in most cases - hence the trapeze harnesses typically have quick release hooks
E) nobody who knows anything at all about performance dinghy sailing would consider gas inflatable style lifejackets

Nice Troll - lets get back to the real world

PS While we are debating this, they are sunning it in Palma ;-)
 
you make a valid point. It would have done two things. Helped him to come to the surface more quickly than he did and we would have had something easy to grab onto when hauling him out.

As it was there were more than enough people to help get him out. If he'd been on his own coming back from the showers it could well have been a different story.

So based purely on personal experience I have decided that all my crew on my yacht shall wear auto harness lifejackets when afloat. For those who think it uncool to carry a lifejacket round with them when on shore etc I have provided a discrete small backpack(£0.94 each from Tesco) in which to keep the LJ in when on terra firma- just have to hope that their water bottles won't leak - and at least one will this year!!

If people don't like it they don't have to come.

Fair winds etc.
 
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So based purely on personal experience I have decided that all my crew on my yacht shall wear auto harness lifejackets when afloat. For those who think it uncool to carry a lifejacket round with them when on shore etc I have provided a discrete small backpack(£0.94 each from Tesco) in which to keep the LJ in when on terra firma- just have to hope that their water bottles won't leak - and at least one will this year!!

If people don't like it they don't have to come.

Fair winds etc.

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And no one would question you on that.

What everyone is questioning though is your opinion that lifejackets, as distinct from buoyancy aids, should be worn whilst sailing dinghys, as distinct from keelboats.
Do you stand by that?
 
You are correct. They are wearing buoyancy aids under their outer garments and not lifejackets. This complies with the regulations for the events. My point is that it would be safer for them to wear lifejackets. A lifejacket has never prevented me from righting a dinghy I've capsized - and there's been a lot of inversions over the years!

It might be argued that some LJ designs slightly restrict movements more than a conformal BA does. so you go back in over the stern - rather than over the side( with my fat gut nowadays i even go in through the back on a Pico!

Fair winds
 
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