Lifejackets, when did you last fall in and would wearing one have made a difference ?

I've had people go overboard 3 times. All in benign conditions. Twice with lifejackets and once without. Main experience of note - it's much easier to think clearly about how to recover someone if you know they are being kept afloat. We wear lifejackets on Amulet, and the individuals who have already fallen overboard once are exceedingly conscientious about doing so.
 
prv said:
Is it really a requirement? It's certainly sensible, but this is the first suggestion I've heard that it's mandatory.
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Enclosed bodies of water such as docks, locks and quays have to have a means of escape which was fixed and permanent. Approved Code of Practice to the Docks Regulations 1988. I had a client who was a civil engineer who developed a system to retrofit ladders in a groove cut into a dock/lock wall so that they lay flush with the wall surface.
I note there was a report in 2010 that questioned their usefulness http://www.hse.gov.uk/ports/quayladder.htm and in late 2012 there was a move to change their installation from regulation to guidance. http://john-spencer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/britains-dock-workers-shouldnt-have-to.html
 
Fell in once in the Roach. Trying to free a rope round the prop from the dinghy and capsized. Lifejacket inflated and I was safe and well. As I was singlehanded I couldn't get back on the boat. (The new one has a permanent fixed boarding ladder.) So I was able to get to the shore safely. Mind you crawling through the mud and walking to a phone box on Foulness is not an experience I'd recommend to anyone. On the basis of that experience I always wear a lifejacket when single handed or sailing when I'm going to get a way offshore. Don't wear one in the marina or quick jaunts up the Crouch with someone else on board, but always wear one when going out to the boat in a dinghy.

I always wore my seatbelt even before it became compulsory. (Yes I am that old!) Remember there were lots of people who objected - the PR company I worked for had an ex-glamour model with a 42" chest and the column inches she got for us on why she had a problem were amazing - but ultimately it wasn't a serious objection. There was also an argument advanced that in a crash you had a greater chance of being thrown clear without a seat belt. I didn't believe that and I don't believe the many arguments for not wearing a lifejacket when its sensible to do so.
 
The last time I fell in was, Ironically, on an RNLI Charity Raft Race in the bay at Port Erin, Isle of Man back in 2002 - and without lifejackets or buoyancy aids of any kind! Water was freezing even in August, I soon tired trying to keep up with and re-board the raft and ended up latched on the back of it kicking legs feebly - had I been seperated from the raft I wouldn't have lasted long before the RNLI would have been supporting me! Have to say that I always look back on that one and think a buoyancy aid would have been sensible.
 
Long distance sailing we never wore life jackets but always clipped on with a harness at night and in bad weather. Most long distance sailing is downwind, often in quite big seas and swell with a current behind you. Being two handed there is a very high chance of losing sight of the MOB when taking the sails down and trying to motor back, not easy in those conditions. We had an inflatatable danboy washed off in big seas, we couldn't believe how quickly we lost sight of it.

My advice would be always clip on as we did then you/crew won't fall overboard. We always viewed life jackets as something you use when getting in a liferaft.
 
Rossynant said:
Touch of weather helm? This would make her just pointing some more. You are referring, I'd venture to say, to wholly unballanced boat ;)
Anyway I found it hard to fish for cod, as boat without sails, helm hard up, was making over a knot in drift, F3. Had to use heaviest bait. Boat was a heavy steel ketch, similar to "British Steel"
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A touch of weather helm, meaning that a slight pressure to windward on the tiller is needed to keep her sailing straight. Not so bad that you have to really put your back into it. Much safer than a neutral helm that has no feel to it what so ever, or lee helm that will put the boat into a gybe if left unattended.
 
I was on a boat when someone got knocked overboard, in very cold (April in the UK) water. They were struggling to keep afloat (wearing boots, oilies etc) and were too shocked to remember to pull the manual inflation on their lifejacket for a while. Not a pleasant experience for them, and for the people on board either- but at least when the jacket (eventually) went off it gave some thinking time and re-assurance.

I always wear a lifejacket and clip on at night, when going on deck, and if on watch alone in the day, along with a 'MOBI' device that sounds a loud alarm if it loses radio contact with the boat. Also in the dinghy if its a long way, or a bit choppy, or when drunk....

Just seems silly not to, really- it's so comfortable (Spinlock deckvest)- but I regard clipping on as the most important thing.
 
Tam Lin said:
Haven't crashed my car yet either so all the times I put my seatbelt on were for nothing!
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Oh but have you tried driving without one? Its becoming a bad habbit of mine when doing short runs, so much comfier...

Seajet said:
Talking of pontoons, sorry for the thread drift but since I was a ' liveaboard ' for a little while and heard of the people who'd been drowned falling in at winter during gales, off icy / sloped pontoons etc, I reckon it's a good idea to cast an eye about and have in mind where the emergency ladders are in marinas.
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I think it should be a mandatory thing on all signs/ plans of the marina showing where the berths are. Anybody who goes near boats with me gets taught to look for the way out. Knowing how to get out is more likely to save you than staying afloat IMHO.

michaelchapman said:
and the mud/slime and god knows what else stunk to high heaven).
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Thats why if some one falls in off a canal boat I offer the advise swim DO NOT WALK, we will lift you out at the side but do not touch that mud.

Seajet said:
I've often wondered about a long length of 2-3mm chord, trailed over the pushpit to the autopilot for the singlehander MOB to pull it up and disable it, might be worth a go for tiller steered boats ?
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Then Launch the boarding ladder at the same time. It has crossed my mind but I think its a sounds good in theory thing...

As for me fallen in once or twice with and without cannot remember doing it off a big boat never had an issue rescuing myself or being easily rescued.

Sail single handed without L/J or Harness most of the time, if I go I am not coming back...
 
prv said:
Most marinas aren't enclosed docks and locks, though.

Pete
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Hull, Preston Glasson, Whitehaven, Maryport, Grimsby, Goole, St Katherines, Brighton, Chichester, Port Solent, Southsea, Liverpool, Sutton Harbour, Pembrokeshire etc etc
 
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Lakesailor said:
Hull, Preston Glasson, Whitehaven, Maryport, Grimsby, Goole, St Katherines, etc etc
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Kemp's, Shamrock, Ocean, Merlin, Hamble Point, Port Hamble, Mercury, Swanwick, Universal, East Cowes, Shepherds, Cowes Haven, Gosport, other Gosport, Gunwharf, Beaulieu, Lymington, Berthon, Poole, Dartmouth, Falmouth, etc etc. I don't know which way the majority falls, but regardless, there are a lot of marinas that are in natural shelter, or artificial shelter that doesn't constitute a lock or a dock.

Seajet asserted that "all UK marinas are required to have ladders". Perhaps some dock regulations apply incidentally to some that happen to be in old industrial basins, but that's not at all the same thing as a requirement on all marinas.

Pete
 
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A couple of years ago I got it wrong while disembowelling from my yacht, Avon was at the stren where I have a stainless steel boarding ladder. I was going ashore after a good sail, after tying up to a swinging mooring. Sea was choppy and it was quite windy.
Anyway, I was caught out by a swell as I was trying to step into the Avon, I ended up in the water, with an upside down Avon for company. I managed to grab part of the dinghy to stop the tide taking me away from the mooring and after a struggle, managed to get back onto the yacht, I don't think I would have been able to get back out of the water if I had been wearing a L/J, As I had no L/J on as I broke surface I could reach out for a piece of boat and start trying to get out, with an LJ I would have been bobbing gently out of the loch.
I don't wear one when onboard the yacht, I am already large and cumbersome, so an LJ would only make the problem worse. If conditions get really wild I would stick one on, same if I was sailing overnight. I keep telling myself to wear one for the tender, I do wear one when the weather is challenging, after the last dunking, mentioned above, I no longer try transferring to/from the tender at the transom, I now tie up alongside the yacht and use a couple of lines to attach the tender to the side of the yacht at each end so that it cannot move away as I lumber around like a beached whale with a beergut!
 
Twice been in and LJ on both times.
First time I stepped backwards off pontoon just arrived at Liverpool Marina. It was the middle of a summer day but no one seemed to notice and it was a bit of a struggle getting back on the pontoon still holding the mooring lines! The second time our tender developed aleak into the sealed box section under the seat. I was just sitting there talking to my wife who had got onto the boat when it just flipped. The water in the box section must have gone to one side and it was scary how unstable it was. Floated ok in my lj but far too constricted to swim in it. I now wear a dinghy flotation vest now in the tender as I think you would be pretty helpless in a strong current in a lj and you may not be able to make the 20ft to avoid being swept away whereas a flotation vest may be better in many circumstances.
 
A few years ago my tender was not terribly stable and I fell in going into it having moored the boat. I was wearing an auto lifejacket which worked fine, without it I believe I would have died as I am a non swimmer. Cold shock was interesting but I quickly got to wondering how I would get out of the water, for once my bad memory was a help as I managed to climb up the outboard I had forgotten to lift!
 
gordmac said:
A few years ago my tender was not terribly stable and I fell in going into it having moored the boat. I was wearing an auto lifejacket which worked fine, without it I believe I would have died as I am a non swimmer. Cold shock was interesting but I quickly got to wondering how I would get out of the water, for once my bad memory was a help as I managed to climb up the outboard I had forgotten to lift!
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You mention the 'cold shock', I have read about this countless times, oddly enough I have been dunked several times, all in Scottish sea-lochs, either Loch Long or the Gareloch. Also all while getting it wrong between tender and yacht. Anyway, every time I have fallen in, gone deepish, broken the surface and it hasn't even occured to me that I have entered cold sea water, as my head gets back above water I have just looked for something to grab and tried to grab anything floating free so that I don't lose my bits.
Next, I try to form a cunning plan for not losing the loose stuff, if I can. Finally once I have got anything I have saved back onto a boat I start thinking about saving myself.
Once I am out of the water I start to chill down and shiver, after the fall mentioned above that did get worrying as I was on my boat on a swinging mooring a long way out on the loch, I had lost my paddles and drowned the outboard. The tide was too low to take my yacht alongside, fortunately there was one other person around who towed me and my Avon back ashore from the mooring.
My theory for not being hit by cold shock is that the sailing waterproofs must act like a wetsuit, also being 21 stone I work on the walrus principle, i.e. a nice layer of insulating fat.to keep me from suffering too quickly!
 
Reasonable amount of insulation myself! Interesting comment on the waterproofs, makes sense. I was wearing jeans and a shirt as it was a nice enough day. Involuntary rapid breathing wouldn't be good with the head under. The lifejacket inflated quickly and floated me on my back, actually quite difficult to get vertical enough to climb out. Most surprising thing for me was how calm I was given I am quite scared of water having been dragged out the pool at school half drowned a few times! Not cold out the water either (summer), took a while to rescue the tender and get the boat back to a pontoon.
 
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