Lifejackets, Crutch straps.

Peppermint

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Sorry to chew me cabbage twice, as me old granny used to say, but I thought there was a lack of joined up thinking on a post on this board.

It was mooted that crutch straps/spray hoods were not essential. I'd beg to differ

If your in the drink and you don't mind remaining passive, you could hold your lifejacket down for a short while, then your going to drown. There is much to do in survival situation and you'll be, about as much use as shy girls in skirts on a windy day, hanging on to your jacket. And your arms will tire quite quickly.

Entering the water correctly is a lovely concept. "After you Claude". Not only don't you know how your going in, you don't know how many times your going in.

First entry from boat to water.

Second, third and forth entry could be from failed attempts to enter a liferaft.

Anyone assisting you will grab your lifejacket so there'll be lifting moments there too.

Fifth entry could be when your dropped by rescuers etc. etc.

Crutch straps don't cause much of a problem in use. Yes they can lift the hem of your jacket, it's not a problem.

Crutch straps are not expensive. If you think they are use a sail tie to do the job.

Sprayhoods are just as important. Your lifejacket will hold you facing into the wind.
spray will blow into your face. You can die from this. Saying your well specced jacket will prevent this is wrong. There is an interogation technique where water is poured on a cloth covering the face of the prisoner and he will suffocate. A face full of wet fleece and goretex will have much the same effect. Remember water is inside the body of your jacket up to neck level. The water is surging up and down and more water is entering through the face area. If you have a mask and snorkel on board you don't need a sprayhood but otherwise you do.

Lights are a must too.

All of these things are fairly cheap and can be retrofitted.



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bigmart

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Re: As the person

who first suggested that crutch straps were essential, in the post that Peppermint is eluding to, I would like to re-state here. My opinion is that a self inflating Lifejacket without Crutch Straps is dangerous.

I have posted this opinion several times before on these boards & was amazed when, for the first time on this board, several, who reallyshould know better from their profiles, suggested that it may be desireable not to wear them.

Let me reiterate "Crutch Straps are Essential".

Martin

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Steve Clayton

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Re: As the person

100% totally agree to crutchstraps for all the reasons in the previous posts. (and the sprayhoods - I've just bought 4; and lights and whistles).

So why aren't all of the above standard features on any 150 (and above) lifejacket???

All IMHO,

Steve

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bigmart

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Re: As the person

A very good question. I suppose the manufacturers might say that they have no control over where the devices are used. Hoods & lights may be considered overkill if the device were used on the local boating lake.

My personal Lifejacket is a Crewsaver 275 Newton Hammar release with Light, Harness, Crutch Straps & hood. Some have suggested that Crewsaver are the market leaders in this type of kit. Its interesting then that the Crewsaver Hood is one of the, if not the worst I have ever seen.

You may ask, in the light of my comments, why I purchased their product. Simply it was because theirs is the only make that seems to be stocked by the majority of Chandlers & hence spares would be more easily available. Obviously I hope never to use mine in anger!

Martin

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boatless

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I've been following this topic, and can only add that I've always used (and insisted that my kids also use) crutch straps, no matter how uncool. Makes my blood run cold when I see friend's kids in badly fitted jackets not using the built in crutch straps.

But, having bought two new ones in September last, I was mighty upset to read in (YW I think) about the partial failure at a press launch of a new child auto jacket. It didn't roll the dummy upright - left it on it's side.. This was an improvement on the company's previous model, which, although BS approved, left the dummy face down....

Haven't heard any follow up to this - have you? Are kid's lifejackets actually any good at all?

John

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Solitaire

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I can only endorse your views here. I recently completed the Sea Survival course and it was a real eye opener to see the effects of not wearing crotch straps. Those on the course who did not have them fitted to their own jackets really struggled and those who were , how can I say this, slightly fullbodied, suffered more than most. The jackets rise up and were around their heads. Without fail, all who did not have crotch straps said that it was the first thing they were going to get!!
The importance of spary hoods was also made apparent. Try trying holding your hands over your face while haveing another person spalsh as hard as they can in your face!! The instructor said splash hard for a minute! No way did anyone make it close before they were forced spluttering to ask the other person to stop. Put a spray hood and the difference is incredible!!!!
It was one of the most enlighting courses I've done and I hink anyone who goes out on the water should do it. Its a real eye opener. Oh, it's also jolly good fun!!

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Jools_of_Top_Cat

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Spray hoods

I have, well SWMBO with her great sewing skills has retrofitted crotch straps last year.

But... How can I retrofit a sprayhood to an existing jacket. Does anyone have a few close up photo's they could post me, where should it be attached, can I buy a kit? or is it an easy'ish build?

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milltech

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Re: Spray hoods

Nice to see the spelling Jools!

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bigmart

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Re: Spray hoods

You could also try the Crewsaver Spray Hood. Its crap but its pretty universal.

Martin

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Jools_of_Top_Cat

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Re: Spray hoods

Just looked those up on line, and it says to be held in a handy pouch on belt.

I thought the idea was once in the water you reached up and pulled the hood down, is that not the norm then? Is it more common to have a seperate sprayhood that you have to somehow take off the belt, in the water with a fully inflated jacket?

Seems near impossible to me. Other than making sure on my new jackets, a future purchase see earlier post, (my current jackets will become guest jackets), should have fitted hoods.

Anyone know different?

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bigmart

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Re: Spray hoods

The idea on the Crewsaver is that you whip it out of the pouch, put it on your head & hook it over the bladders in front of you. Its got to be better than nothing but not a lot.

Like I said "Its crap"

Martin

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ruff_n_tumble

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Re: Spray hoods

But not as crap as the XM sprayhood (which I have thrown away as useless) or XM crutch straps which when you sit down in them ride down your legs and have you bent double. I use a Crewsaver myself but have just bought a couple of XMs for crew use and have fitted Crewsaver stuff to them.

It seems that anyone who has done the sea survival course is convinced that these things are essential - I would recommend everyone who goes to sea to do a course.

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MainlySteam

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I will not contribute in any way as having a view suggesting alternative approaches on this subject is apparantly forbidden and only worthy of denigration /forums/images/icons/frown.gif.

However, I would be interested in your views as to why if crotch straps are "essential" for everyone on all PFD's why your energies are not being expended criticising the manufacturers who it would seem in your views, universally with no exceptions whatsoever, apparantly turn out products that require them.

I am now off to do the lawns in order to keep myself out of the firing line /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

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bigmart

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Crewsaver supply them as, I think, do Ocean Safety. I expect there are others that supply them too. Maybe other posters can fill in any blanks?

Martin

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SilverBreeze

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Hey Tom, good, thoughtful post, as usual!

I missed the earlier thread you refer, away on hols in Egypt, including felucca sailing on the Nile, great fun.

At our sailing school (celebrating 35th birthday this year) we have NEVER used a life jacket or buoyancy aid that does not have integral crutch or thigh straps. We regularly demonstrate what happens when you try to drag a practice casualty into a rescue boat who is wearing buoyancy sans straps: you get the jacket, but not the bloke!

Last autumn, racing in Dublin bay, we watched a feller get tossed off the bow of a 40-something. His boat had difficulty getting back to him. A Sigma 38 came alongside the guy and two pairs of willing hands reached thru the lifelines to grab him. They stripped the inflated jacket right off of him and left him floundering. Somebody else collected him with a well timed toss of a spi sheet. Scary stuff.

For dinghy, windsurfing and cat courses, we specify 50 Newton buoyancy aids with "optional extra at extra cost crutch straps" from the leading UK maker. Such courses always have an attendant rescue boat for every six craft.

For keelboat and cruising courses, we specify 150 Newton auto inflate jackets with "optional harness and optional crutch straps." Can't understand the "optional extra" bit, capitalism, I suppose.

All of the other posts are quite correct: an inflated bladder jacket without a crutch strap is lethal.

Regarding harnesses, our friends in France some years ago experimented. They learned that a chest mounted harness, towed at greater than four knots, created a "head wave" that forced water into the face of the casualty. A back mounted harness was good to five or six knots before the "head wave" became impossible.

However, a chest mounted harness allowed the casualty to haul himself along the line when necessary, an element of control. A back mounted harness was impossible for the casualty to control, he had to rely on his crew mates to haul him in and control the line.

So, we use jackets with straps and harnesses. And we have never lost a soul.

Cheers,
Bob, in Dublin





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JonBrooks

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I, like Solitaire, have just done the RYA Sea Survival Course.
If you have not done it its a day well spent.
Learnt a lot and made me think about a lot of things I had never consider before.

After just a short time in the water with all your kit on, you are going to become very tired.
So, IMHO, crutch straps are a must.
You will not have the strength to hold down your jacket and get in you raft or back on your boat.

Just my thoughts

Regards

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