Lifejackets again

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rallyveteran

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Dick Durham reports:
A recent review of drowning incidents by a panel of UK experts found that lives might have been saved in 69% of incidents had the person been wearing a suitable lifejacket or personal floatation device. but puts this at the end of a news story that clearly wasn't one of the incidents in question - because no-one drowned.

Would I wear a lifejacket if getting into a three metre tender on the Hamble after dark in December? - YES, I'm sure I would.

But I am worried that if Dick Durham keeps writing articles with this tone that some do-gooder will pass a law making me wear a lifejacket at times when I am quite happy without one.
 
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some do-gooder will pass a law

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It was ever thus! Just look at the laws we have to observe while driving our cars. Now some people, and I have seen some of 'em in The Lounge, believe that driving up the motorway at 90 mph with one ear plugged into a mobile phone is OK, but "some do gooder" made laws so that both of those are now illegal.
I guess you are not a lifeboatman or a volunteer coastguard having to fish dead bodies from the sea which might, if lifejackets were worn, have been live bodies?
 
Linking the first two threads.... I believe I am correct in reminding you that many (more?) people drown in cars than when in/from boats. Should I wear a lifejacket when in the car?
The home is a very unsafe place too as casualty dept figures will verify.
 
The first question that should be asked-
Are these people capable of handling this vessel in the conditions.?
The second-
Was there alcohol involved(only a guess but porbibly)?
 
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some people, and I have seen some of 'em in The Lounge, believe that driving up the motorway at 90 mph with one ear plugged into a mobile phone is OK, but "some do gooder" made laws so that both of those are now illegal.

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Bid difference is that if I crash my car I can kill someone else, if i fall in the water i'm only killing myself.
 
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if I crash my car I can kill someone else, if i fall in the water i'm only killing myself.

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Quite so, but in both instances some poor soul has to deal with your rotten corpse after your inconsiderate actions have cost the nation an enormous amount of money at your inquest. I hope you are never the one to pull a sea soaked, stinking and decomposing body from the water saying as you do "if only he/she had worn a lifejacket."
 
There are probably as many corpses pulled out of the sea wearing lifejackets or where a lifejacket wouldn't have made a diffference. Compulsory wearing of lifejackets when boating will not eradicate drownings anymore than seatbelts stop people dying in car crashes.
 
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There are probably as many corpses pulled out of the sea wearing lifejackets or where a lifejacket wouldn't have made a diffference.

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I'd need to see some hard figures before I'd prioritize wearing an LJ over clipping on or anything else I currently consider important.

Cornishman, how many yachtsmen drowned last year? You make it sound like the RNLI are picking Yachtsmen's bodies out of the water all the time.

Aren't head injuries the biggest danger when sailing? (Not that sailing is dangerous - christ it's safer than walking to the newsagent.)
 
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Cornishman, how many yachtsmen drowned last year? You make it sound like the RNLI are picking Yachtsmen's bodies out of the water all the time.

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I hope this will answer your questions.
 
Sorry but I can't find the answer.

Sorry Cornishman but I think you are typical of a new breed that get on their high horse over everything and then insist they know best and that their beliefs should be mandated on others.

How many dead bodies were fished out of the sea last year where wearing a lifejacket would have made a difference (don't include swimmers and people washed off breakwaters/beaches that never intended going into the water as their lack of intention would prevent them from wearing one in the 1st place!

I suspect regretably more children died in swimming/paddlig pools and fishponds!!

I am responsible for H & S at work and believe I have the right cost to risk balance both at work and when on my boat but I find The goody goody brigade (simile - read sanctimoneous) are ramming H & S down everyone throat is making safety even more difficult as people are stopping thinking for themselves and doing their own natural appraisal of any situation (In H & S parlance - risk analysis)

I just got a new car for SWMBO and you cannot find out how to operate anything safely without first reading 5x the amount of info in disclaimers including "use of ignition key can cause danger". Result SWMBO has given up reading manual and is manually trying to do everything using common sense (including putting roof up/down) In reality it would be safer if she could quickly find relevant safe instructions of how to operate the car!

When will people put risks into perspective and lets concentrate on being safer in a sensible manner.

Rant over but pray tell us in UK waters how many yachtsmen died having fallen overboard from Yachts/MoBo's/Dinghys/Tenders that would have been saved had they worn a lifejacket.
 
I lost 2 mates a year ago who were older than me, very experienced, and thought they were good swimmers. One of them took the micky out of me for always wearing a life jacket when out boating.

They drowned.

Went out in the dinghy to the yacht and were found washed up next morning.

Waste of time trying to persuade others to always wear life jackets, look at all the daft comments that have been made already.

The 6 distraught children of these chaps do wish their fathers had been more sensible.
 
...."but I find The goody goody brigade (simile - read sanctimoneous) are ramming H & S down everyone throat is making safety even more difficult as people are stopping thinking for themselves and doing their own natural appraisal of any situation (In H & S parlance - risk analysis)"

an excellent quote, and good example of, commonly lacking, common sense.
 
At the age of 71 I am delighted to be seen as one of a "new breed" after some 55 years experience of yachting across the world which includes 30+ years as a RYA Yachtmaster Examiner and 12 years as a seamanship instructor at the Plymouth School of Maritime Studies. I can't be seen as riding my own high horse as I belong to the Plymouth Lifeboat Sea Safety team and feel I have a responsibility to spread the Gospel According to the RNLI whom I regard as the experts in these matters, and I am proud to serve them wherever I can.

You only "suspect" more toddlers died in swimmimg pool accidents, and that is your prerogative. It is not up to me to tell you how many caualties died because they were not wearing a lifejacket, but I do respect the experience of the RNLI who started their lifejacket campaign a few years ago. Try asking them, or check the MCA figures if you really want to know.
My own direct experience was pulling a near death canoeist from the wintery waters of Fowey Harbour some years ago who later admitted he would have been better off if he had worn a lifejacket. I doubt I have persuaded you in this matter you seem so firmly set in your attitude, but I can only try.
Now, go and take those glass baubles off your Christmas tree in case you cut yourself if one breaks, there's a good chap.
 
You might remember my post about us being towed in from Le Raz De Sein by a French lifeboat this summer. None of the French Lifeboat crew were wearing lifejackets, all had a variety of footwear from wooden slip on clogs to peep toe sandals, teeshirts and shorts. Unlike the RNLI they don't dress for winter in a Southern Ocean storm for a mid summer tow job but use some commonsense.

Over the years too I have sailed with a number of RNLI crews from offshore and inshore boats and again none wore lifejackets on their own boats as a routine, only when they thought it better to do so. It is only relatively recently that the RNLI has taken the Gnu Labour approach and started preaching.

As a general rule I don't wear a lifejacket when on board any more than I would if I were on a cruise ship or a ferry. I might wear one if making a rough trip out/back to the boat in the dinghy but probably more likely I would not have made that dodgy dinghy trip in the first place. At what point do you stop needing one on board, using the BBQ, in bed, or when? If you give answer to any of those questions it implies some commonsense applies and therefore no need for enforcement by decree, governmental or RNLI.

I'm not advocating something akin to civil disobedience just the use of simple commonsense and doing what is sensible for your circumstances at the time. If that means wearing a lifejacket when others are not then that is fine but so is the reverse. In any case I would always make a case for wearing a harness more than a lifejacket although ours are in fact combined.
 
You completely miss my point.

Firstly if you are going to threaten dire risk treat people in an educated manner and appraise them of the risk backed up with statistics.

I do nearly always wear a lifejacket and recommend others do unless it gets in the way of a suntan. As skipper I insist if we are reefed or at night.

What I am against is making it compulsary or implying stupidity if you don't.

If we treated people with respect and educated them to evaluate the real risks then people will react with more responsibility and become more safety conscious.

On my boat the internal steps in a deck saloon followed by boiling water out of the taps and fingers in winches are the major concerns only then followed by an accidental gybe/going overboard.

We are reaching the point where H & S BS is stoping many from identifying the real risks and the copious H & S warnings in instruction books are making access to the real meat and sense of the instruction difficult if not impossible to identify.

Your litany of your vast experience does not make your right but I would evaluate your biggest risk as complacency followed by I have always done it this way!!

Never underestimate the distortion of statics by organisations that want to justify themselves.

Again I ask you how many people died in the UK from going overboard when a lifejacket would have saved them?
 
...and again, if you really want to know use the official statistics sites. I don't keep count, so stop asking me.
As for your accusations about complacency you are completely wrong. The day I stop learning will be the day I put an anchor over my shoulder and walk inland until somebody asks me what it is. I have not said I am right, or wrong, but merely offer the advice being suggested by the RNLI safety team. They have no vested interest, but just good old fashioned common sense born out of vast experience. As they say, lifejackets are useless if not worn.
You, too, have overlooked the fact that nowhere will you see that I have advocated the compulsory wearing of anything. What I have said is that compulsion day gets nearer the more people do not use their common sense. Think using mobile phones while driving f'rinstance.
You do what you like, accept or ignore advice, but don't blame me if the "do gooders" manage to make it compulsory. I have spent many years fighting the good fight against compulsory certification by following the old RYA adage "education before legislation" and that is how I feel about wearing lifejackets.
 
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You do what you like, accept or ignore advice, but don't blame me if the "do gooders" manage to make it compulsory. I have spent many years fighting the good fight against compulsory certification by following the old RYA adage "education before legislation" and that is how I feel about wearing lifejackets.

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From your RNLI article:_

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RNLI research has found that 98% of people surveyed carry a lifejacket. However, further evidence shows that only 52% of people often wear their lifejackets, compared with 42% that say they wear their lifejackets all the time."

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That is 94% of people wear their life jackets often or all the time. I would suggest that the RNLI would be better off with a campaign specifically targeted at wearing LJs in tenders as it does appear to be a major element of the casualties.
 
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