Lifeboat speed in harbour...no respect to fellow mariners!

[starboard]

On Sunday whilst preparing my yacht to enter Troon marina within the confines of the harbour I watched the local Trent class lifeboat depart its berth at full speed. Although on hearing the maroons I had moved my vessel to a position well clear,the resulting stern wash as the lifeboat accelerated out towards the harbour entrance was a danger to any vessel shortly to enter.

At Troon any vessel approaching the entrance from the west is blind to any departing vessel and vice a versa. To be confronted at the entrance with the lifeboat touching 25kts with its generated 3 meter stern wash could be catastrophic.

I was so insensed that shortly after I approached the Station manager whom just laughed at my claim, I therefore emailed the Chief of operations at Poole with my concern.

Today I recieved a reply that after investigation he was happy with the way the lifeboat was operated, indeed the harbourmaster had stated the boat was only at half speed ( 12kts!!!)

It would appear to me as this has not been the first incident I have witnessed of this nature at Troon it will only be a matter of time before someone is hurt or even worse.

I have done my bit by sticking my neck out and complaining but it would appear to me any complaint will go to a kangaroo court and be dismissed.

Having spent 15 years with the RNLI laterly as a 2nd Coxswain I am fully aware of the need to get the boat to sea ASAP, but surely this should be done in a safe and seaman like manner, and not putting at risk any other mariners. Indeed I think you will find in 80% of the case of lifeboat launch there is never any life at threat and only an AA job tow home required!

I know in recent times there is a great lack of experianced mariners joining the RNLI, it is easy to teach people with no marine background how to do this and that but it is immpossible to teach the awareness that these people should have.

In the future it would appear fruitless to complain....however at the end of the day I will be happy in the fact I have stuck my neck out to point out the error of there ways when disaster should strike.

I wonder if this is just a local thing or maybe a national trend is becoming apparent to this lack of awareness??

Paul.

 

[bruce]

i would wonder if you would be saying this if you had called them for help...

 

[paulrossall]

starboard
I agree with you. It is just like the Police saying they can drive like maniacs and put every other road user at risk just becase a couple of cars have collided and they have been asked to attend to verify the insurance claims. Paul

 

[AndCur]

Hi

Think it really depends on the nature of the call. In some cases these extra few
seconds/minutes can make the difference between life and death. But if the boat
was just out on exercise there is no excuse for this sort of thing.

Andrew

 

[Colin24]

Paul

Up until you mentioned your 15 years as 2nd Coxswain with RNLI I was already mentally formulating my angry response to your seemingly preposterous complaint.
However crediting you with the experience you have and taking into account my lack of knowledge about the entrance to Troon marina, the best I can do is hold my tongue.

My gut reaction is to say don’t spare the horses; it could be my family or me in real trouble. If a speedy reaction means a potential big fright for those entering the marina then so be it.

Colin

 

[DRW]

Paul,

What was the nature of the shout they had been tasked to? Was time of the essence?

Regards,
David

 

[starboard]

What ever it was was a false alarm as the lifeboat returned within a few minutes. All I ask is what is to be gained by proceeding the 400metres to the harbour entrance at a ridiculous speed rather than a sensible speed. There is every chance of causing more damage and hurt in that distance than the benefit gained by arriving at the job a micro second sooner.

 

[DRW]

So it wasn't an "AA tow job home then".

Well, if you are not satisfied with an internal RNLI investigation to your complaint, then the harbourmaster is the next natural door to complain to.

You could check http://www.troonlifeboat.co.uk/ to find the nature of the shout. The only false alarm they have listed was for a person in difficulties in the water, where time would be of the essence - until proved otherwise.

Regards,
David

 

[TheBoatman]

Starboard
I spent a couple of days in Ramsgate recently and whilst there the lifeboat was called out 3 times and each time the cox'n kept his speed down until he had the stern of the boat between the harbour entrance walls, as soon as he got there he let rip with all the horses available to him. So it could be a local thing that you experienced.

Peter.
PS
I wish I could say the same for the Estuary Service Pilot boats who seem to operate a system of "lets see if we can stand that yacht on its beam ends for a good laugh"?

 

[Ships_Cat]

The Trent Class must be a real crappy type of design if it generates a 3 meter stern wash at 25 knots, as you claim /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

Have never seen a 45 foot boat do that myself, nor even those much larger and much faster.

John

 

[Guest]

It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

But a) I bet with his view from helm position he can see reasonably well around, b) for him it is speed is essence, c) often as you know they have no real idea what they are going for ...

I sympathise with the post - but also consider that any poor sod who called for them needs help ..... unfortunately I was a "tow home" one time .... actually twice ... first was not my call - inshore fisherman called the inshore rib to get me when stuck in wind vs tide in entrance to Langstone .... not needed - but they reckoned was good practice towing alongside .... second I had lost forestay, spreaders broke, genny horizontal from masthead, bouncing on Bemnbridge ledge .... force 6 gusting 7 .... so very glad of them ..... (I called CG actually to advise them of my situation - they sent out the LB ....)
I was glad they got there quick ... situation was deteriorating and soon it would have been a LB call ....

Starboard .... I applaud that you have / are 2nd Cox .... a position and 'job' that many cannot do .... I for one admire anyone who voluntary sets out in appalling weather etc. But speed may be the thing that decides success or failure .....

Did you consider that contacting LB centre and did you state your position as 2nd Cox etc. ?? They must have thought it strange or serious for a LB man to complain ?????

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[fireball]

Re: It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

As speed could well be justified for the shout - why not suggest a method of warning those outside of the pending wash? A flashing light (blue? Yellow?) outside the harbour could be triggered at the same time as the maroons - this gives any seafarers a minute or so warning that a s*dding great lifeboat is coming out like the smelly stuff off a garden implement.
Not having the experience of a powerful Mobo and not knowing Troon it is difficult to comment on the apparent speed & wash dangers to other mariners.

 

[Dyflin]

Re: It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

There’s an aerial photo of Troon at;
http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/maps/parks/histtroonharbour.gif

From what I remember of Troon, the lifeboat station is about halfway into the outer harbour area, as close to the harbour entrance as possible when commercial traffic is taken into account? I also seem to remember that there are warning rockets fired and/or a siren sounded before the boat departs? Considering the two 90deg turns they have to make in quick succession at the harbour entrance, I'd be surprised if they were doing 25 knots...

BTW, a 3 metre stern wash?! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Are you sure about that?

For the record, Dun Laoghaire lifeboat also goes full (or almost?) tilt out of the harbour when on a call.

I understand your concern and agree that the safety of other vessels should not be compromised, but (a) they are the waterborne emergency services on a call out and (b) I'd like to see it for myself to confirm your allegations are true.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: It\'s not just me then.

I had an incident years ago with the Salcombe Lifeboat. We were moored off the Ferry Inn on a HA mooring. The lifeboat passing caused a major kettle spillage that narrowly missed a child crew member, who had already fallen to the floor because of the wash induced motion.

Now while I'm all for the idea that if you want rescuing you'd like them to get a shift on, actually I'd prefer a helicopter please, but a bit of a balance needs to be achieved. It is illogical to suggest that racing to a casualty take primacy over a duty of care to those around you.

In reality much of the problem is related to poorly sited Lifeboat stations. Salcombes boat has to travel at least a mile, through the moorings and past the beaches, to get into open water. He'd loose a lot of time if he did it at 6knots. That being said, the one incident I'm on about was the old Baltic Exchange. She made a big hole in the water at 8 knots.

The question for the RNLI is what is their policy on wash and how do they monitor it. Yachtsmen and other sea users shouldn't feel inhibited by the saintly RNLI being beyond reproach. If we don't whinge they'll never know they've got a problem.

 

[graham]

As a lifeboatman Im sure you know that lifeboats sometimes launch with very little information .Details get filled in as they are on the way.

A lot of lifeboat calls are false alarms of one sort or another or routine tows therefore I think that it is to the credit of the crews that they treat every call as a lifesaving emergency until proved otherwise.



If one of my family were struggling in the water I would hope the lifeboat coxswain would make all possible speed.

If the launch had occured at 0200hrs in a january force 10 there would have been noone around to complain.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Basic algebra

People drowned at sea = y

People drowned in harbour because of lifeboat wash/collision = y – y

(Lives claimed to have been saved by RNLI press office = y + z, where z = y x lurid imagination)

 

[Peppermint]

Re: It\'s Basic Politics & Law

People drowned at sea = not RNLI fault. (No duty of care)

People injured/drowned in harbour wash incident = RNLI fault. (Duty of care)

Lives saved = PR spin. (Giv uz yer [--word removed--] money)

 

[graham]

Re: It\'s not just me then.

[ QUOTE ]
The lifeboat passing caused a major kettle spillage that narrowly missed a child crew member

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sure in the same situation I would have made some choice comments about the coxswains parentage but after cooling down I would have accepted that this is inevitable occasionally.

Im glad your child wasnt badly hurt .Personally I insist on the pan holders being used on the kettle after a similar near miss.

i wonder if an ambulance style siren fitted to lifeboats for use in harbours or mooring areas would be a good idea?

A lot of lifeboatmen are yachtsmen themselves so they will appreciate the problem.

 

[starboard]

[ QUOTE ]
The Trent Class must be a real crappy type of design if it generates a 3 meter stern wash at 25 knots, as you claim /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

Have never seen a 45 foot boat do that myself, nor even those much larger and much faster.

John

[/ QUOTE ]

The stern wash is created as the boat accelerates and goes over the "Hump"at this stage prior to going on the plane a huge ammount of water is shifted causing a very lage wave.Once at speed the wash would be negligable.

Paul.

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

As it's only in the harbour confines why not a blue light/siren procedure for leaving harbour at speed and also a log entry when exceeding harbour speed limits. Works well on the lake and always attracts the attention.
It could possibly make it less convenient to use speed if not actually required.