Life raft or not

In the circumstances given:
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...sailing around Poole area..mainly the harbour, but may venture onto open sea, but very close in ...

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I think a life raft would be a waste of money.

The odds of being involved in a catastrophic sinking or fire which would necessitate launching a liferaft before other assistance gets to you are pretty long. (Can anyone think of a recent instance where not having a liferaft cost lives in this area?).

Spend the money on other more useful safety equipment or buy a tender that you will get some use out of.
 
I agree that a liferaft is overkill. You'd be better protected with decent PFDs, decent cold-water protective gear (mustang jackets, immersion suits, WHO) and personal signalling devices (battery-operated strobe lights, whistles etc) and a decent waterproof portable VHF, so you can call for help.

Kevin
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the circumstances given:
[ QUOTE ]
...sailing around Poole area..mainly the harbour, but may venture onto open sea, but very close in ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a life raft would be a waste of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree.
It would be interesting to know what size boat the OP has, & how much money he has to spend (if not a rude question).

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(Can anyone think of a recent instance where not having a liferaft cost lives in this area?).

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The incident that hit home for me was the deaths of 2(?) people near Puffin Island last year when their 16'(?) sailing boat (4 OB) was swamped. Not geographically close, but (to my mind) similar, close-in waters (you can almost walk to Bangor at low tide!). This is our "backyard", and the incident shocked me, having always worked on the assumption that rescue would be close by.

Being relatively inexperienced ourselves, and taking our primary age children out on the boat, Caroline & I have had numerous discussions about safety. Without wishing to sound patronising, inexperience promotes discussions based on "It might sink", and the need for a life-raft, etc. However the crucial step to take it to think *why* it might sink, and to move on to preventative measures. Hitting a submerged object may be unavoidable, but there are a shed-load of other things that are much more likely to ruin your day: Make sure you've got a bilge pump; make sure all your sea-cocks are working - & close them when you can!; Carry soft-wood bungs; Make sure your rig / engine is in good working order; always carry enough fuel / spare oil / spark plugs (etc.) / tools / shear pins; make sure you have the means to anchor / warm clothing & emergency food stash if you need to wait over somewhere; check the bilges regularly; let someone ashore know your plans & keep them up to date with changes; Practice MOB, assuming it's you who's gone OB (ahem... really must do this..); wear your lifejackets; pay attention to weather & tides. Know your boat.

Pertinent to the incident above, carry some means of raising the alarm, should the worst happen. Our rationale is to take every precaution to look after the boat, and to be self reliant. A life-raft is of limited value unless someone knows you're in trouble, and roughly where to look for you. We have a 22'er, and sail inshore waters. The addition of a liferaft would probably sink it! Certainly not feasible for the 16' boat that got swamped. We do have a VHF & carry flares which I hope would be sufficient, but following this incident we also purchased an EPIRB.

Sorry, turned into a bit of a rant (which wasn't the original intention).

YMMV.

Happy sailing.

Andy
 
Definitely not

Having once got into a liferaft I've sworn never to do so again.

You'd do far better to fit a DSC vhf, get a 406EPIRB, and some good 250newton lifejackets with spray protection.

If you are indulging in 200nm passages outside vhf coverage, a liferaft is essential and a DSC SSB desirable. When you do choose a liferaft avoid the cheapy "inshore" versions (Beaufort, RDF, Zodiac or BfA are OK) and remember after 3 years you'll need to have it serviced annually at an average cost of £100 and it'll probably have to be written off after 12 years.

If you still feel the need for a raft, hire one for your annual cruise, it's probably cheaper than owning your own.

US Coastgurd figures for rescues since the advent of the 406EPIRB are down to 8-hours from the pre-EPIRB 8 days. I suspect European figures are better than that.
 
Re: Definitely not

If you think that carrying a lifraft in inshore waters is advsiable, then at the risk of sounding unbearably patronising, I wonder if you have enough faith in your sailing skills? If it makes you feel more safe then is that because you worry that your seamanship isn't up to scratch? Long term you will benefit much more from spending the £500 on a good course. It will give you confidence and perspective and help to prevent all sorts of problems that a liferaft can't help you with. Day sailing in Poole when the forecast is good shouldn't necessitate carrying a liferaft. Crossing an ocean is a different matter.
 
Very close in

Hope you have a good time of course.

Yep, i wd have a liferaft and in fact i wd try and stay a bit further out than "very close in" ahem :-)

On another part of the fiorums there a thread about a boat that somehow goes up in flames and if that happens then you can have a look but then mite easily need to get off very quickly.

Another quite good thing i have seen family boating is a boat where the guy sed look, now and again i might need you all out on deck incredibly quickly, and had whistle especially for this tied to helm on a string. Quite a laugh yet impressive to see them whoosh up on deck in seconds, something to do/practise, no boating skills needed and it mite save their lives one day. Secretly, many boaty skills don't need millions of hours of experience but is a combination of stuff that is, individually, flippin obvious once you think about it or an instructor explains.

Liferaft wise, the obvious thing is you don't need one...unless you need one. I went swimming in the solent in august and was in the water for about 1 minute between two boats on moorings outside cowes. Never again. I wd consider myself a strong swimmer cos I did club racing in schooldays etc, but it was v v uncomfortable even whilst swimming fast with minimal gear on and i wd have been in difficulties v quickly and didn't feel I wd be able to help others much either - I needed just to get out asap and it took at least 30 mins with cups of tea and warm showers to recover on a sunny day.

To help one person back in, a floating line with fender attached can be towed around them under engine as with recovering a skier and all on board who aren't under watchful eye/tied on should be able to at least float/tread water albeit no matter how good a swimmer they are they won't be able to get anywhere much really except to an absolutely styationery and neraby boat - they have to be pulled out.

So anyway, i wd have a liferaft, and also an instructor for a few days if you are nervous or feeling too apprehensive. Or praps a few one-day sessions with instructor, loads of them about in poole solent area and often v cheap cos they get a free day on a boat. In fact of course many wise birds hereabouts too can and do come along to help nervous newbies, and i've never yet really had someone on a boat without learning something, even if it's "jeez i wouldn't do it this way" :-)

All the best.
 
Re: Definitely not

Ok Folks I think a conclusion has been reached. I will invest in the money in a new dinghy, upgrade the radio and emergency equipment and look at a course to improve my seamanship. The boat I have is a 24ft finesse that we bought to potter around local water on and of course for me to varnish!!. I might take a risk on my own but not with my family so a life raft could be overkill,, accidents can happen, but hopefully on a nice sunny day should be only minutes from help given the number of boats on the water. Thanks for all the input, I expected everyone to say that they had a life raft and I should has well.
 
sailing skills

i am not at all sure that in judging the need for a liferaft there is too much correlation with sailing skills?

With super-duper sailing skills, frinstance, you could whizz the thing along in lots of conditions where others might put the engine on and head for home, or perhaps even just not go out at all. And regardless, your crew might just do anything at all, and actually risk MOB far more when they are confident moving around the deck than initially when sit rooted in the cockpit. You'd go sailing more often, again increasing the risk that some other boat does something/crash/whatever at you, and so on.

With confidence in your sailing/boating skills one shd surely be confident that if something did happen then you'd be okay. But hopefully not so confident that you didn't need safety gear? Hence the grizzly experts have loads more safety gear - not less and less, usually. Ok, so racing the wd do without but thats boating in v close company often with safety boat, calculated risk etc.

Agreed we are talking about vanishly small number of instances here, tho not "zero" ? Well anyway, i wd rather have the instruction and the liferaft as well. And dinghy too come to that. Most people with boat can afford another £1000 on the credit card rather more than live with themsleves cos they saved a few quid not getting liferaft...

I wdn't have a liferaft if i could get ashore, like on the upper thames frinstance. Estuaries, tho, one could easily have an incident that meant no boat for you and/or no other boat could get to you either. I have no doubt you could die in water whilst withing easy view of people on a beach, for instance. Yep ok, lots of places okay, but I woiuldn't trust myself to be able to jusdge exactly where it was ok with liferaft and where not....
 
hm. Having been in both atlantic and med, the short sharp waves of the med are easuily more likely to tip over a dinghy whereas long long rollers of atlantic or another ocean are less likely to upend the thing, as per Bligh etc found out.

Isn't this a bit like polling everyone in the street to see if you need fire insurance or (in america) health insurance? Just cos all the people you speak to don't or haven't needed it doesn't mean they won't ever need it, nor that you won't need it. It's not like polling people to see if you need brakes on the car is it?

Put it another way try telling someone whislt in Biscay "oh, i asked on a web forum and most people sed nah, you'll probably be fine! hence didn't get a liferaft..."

Personal choice of course.
 
I bought a life raft simply because I could not imagine the look of horror and my wifes, childrens, friends, faces if when the crunch came , that I had to explain that a decision was made on dry land not to have one.
 
A few years ago it was possible to buy an 'emergency raft' - basically a single inflation chamber life raft without a canopy that would hold about four people. They cost around £200 at the time and came in a very compact valise.

This would give you piece of mind at a lot less expense than a full liferaft. I tried Googling for one but can't find a link. Might be worth asking around though.
 
When "horror stories " are linked to on this forum my only recollection of liferafts is they either fail to work (Legend holed in Irish sea last year) or people are washed away trying to get in them (Creightons Naturally knocked down in Biscay, which stayed afloat). I would definitely invest in good comms- epirb, vhf etc before a liferaft.
 
Re: sailing skills

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Most people with boat can afford another £1000 on the credit card rather more than live with themselves cos they saved a few quid not getting liferaft...


[/ QUOTE ] But it isn't just £1000. Cos next week someone will post about how an EPIRB is vital when sailing in the Solent; or replacing all your gas fittings every five years or 250 newton lifejackets ; or change to DSC etc etc etc. If we followed all the safety suggestions on our beloved forum it would be more like an extra £10,000. My point was that with limited budget what do you spend the £500 on? A good course may well serve you better than a liferaft. Plus I think there is an issue of relying too much on our gear to get us out of trouble. When Jeremy Clarkson was asked how to reduce road deaths he suggested stripping out all the safety gear on cars and replacing it with a six inch spike in the middle of the steering wheel. I think that the way we sail has more impact on our safety than all the shinny safety gear.
 
Re: sailing skills

I suppose that this will result in comments such as "What do they know about it?", but...............

In the RYA booklet "Yacht Safety; Sail & Power" they categorise boats as

Cat A = Ocean
Cat B = Offshore (50 -500 mile passages around UK & NW Europe
Cat C = Inshore (within 10 miles of coast)
Cat D = Sheltered waters

They recommend a life raft for Cat. A; an inflatable for Cat B. & C. and nothing (forgetting other safety items for this discussion) for Cat. D

I must admit that I was a little surprised that they didn't include Cat B. as requiring a life raft but, presumably, they have their reasons.
 
Re: sailing skills

I wouldn't read too much into the word "recommend".
If SWMBO "recommends" that I do something, I know exactly where I stand! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
That's a very busy sea area, especially in the harbour and help would never be far away. By the time you got your liferaft deployed you could have half a dozen fellow boaters alongside assuming you have the means to summon the help, which I reckon is probably more useful in these circumstances. Make sure you have good VHF and flares.





Dave
 
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