Life of a wooden boat?

[Tranona]

Tranona You have hit on a key aspect of HB's beliefs, I cut a sentence or two about iron fastenings to reduce the quote length, but the incompatibility of oak & iron leading to nail sickness is a part of his argument. The cost of refastening could easily exceed the value of the boat. We also need to remember that boat prices (especially for older boats) were relatively low then. Today people may spend more on repairing an historic vessel than it might cost to replace her.

Yes, if you read Maurice Griffiths' books from the 20's and 30's when he was active as a yacht broker and serial boat buyer/seller you realise that used boats had very little value. People now spend huge sums such as 2 year's average earnings refurbishing boats that changed hands before the war for as little as 3 months wages. Many were "saved" in the early post war years because new boats were difficult to come by, expensive and often not well built because of lack of good materials.

 

[Wansworth]

Back in 1975 I bought a Mashford 4 tonner which had been built in1938 as a stock boat that kept the work force going until a paying customer turned up.I re newed the keel bolts ,new bent timbers and some planking.She cost me 1,500 (Sterling) and the refit cost probably another 700.A few years ago she was for sale in Gibralter and recently was for sale in Mallorca with a new mast ,sails etc and outboard(original stuart turner gone) for something like 7000 eurs.She was a sister ship to "Felicity Ann" a boat that was recommended by Barton to the skipperess to sail across the Atlantic.

 

[SurferShane]

Yes, if you read Maurice Griffiths' books from the 20's and 30's when he was active as a yacht broker and serial boat buyer/seller you realise that used boats had very little value. People now spend huge sums such as 2 year's average earnings refurbishing boats that changed hands before the war for as little as 3 months wages. Many were "saved" in the early post war years because new boats were difficult to come by, expensive and often not well built because of lack of good materials.

On the cost side you have to wonder why doesn’t the average person like me just give up? Noting I am currently not working and tossing a coin between a rental property and moving onto the boat; so which is the bigger money pit? You know the old joke nowadays about B.O.A.T, “bring out another thousand”. I have always thought a good option might be just to sail someone else’s from its mooring and disappear to sea. In this way you could save them a lot of financial hardship whilst allowing them to collect on the insurance?

Kind of like the other day I saw this beautiful NZ wooden boat for sale owned by a Supreme Court Judge that was currently in Thailand being maintained by a “master boat builder”. You really even have to wonder if it was merely sent to a third world country because his wages could not even cover the maintenance? Well, I might as well go take my antidepressants and valium and pray for a good nights sleep.

 

[Tranona]

No, you don't need valium or any other medication just on account of owning (or wanting to own) a wooden boat. I have successfully run a modest one for 30 years while holding down an ordinary (no extraordinary, but not super highly paid) job bringing up a family and doing all the other normal middle England things.

The secret is to buy one in good condition, learn how to look after it yourself and never neglect it. Even then you will find a refit is needed every 10-15 years because things tend to wear out together and it can make sense to fix them all in one go. Just going through my second one since buying her. Over the years not a lot of difference in cost and work than a similar GRP boat, particularly if you change that frequently and suffer the potential capital loss. However, you need to choose the right boat that will meet your requirements for a long period of time.

 

[Searush]

(snip)
She was a sister ship to "Felicity Ann" a boat that was recommended by Barton to the skipperess to sail across the Atlantic.

I have both of Anne Davison's books (very good they are too) & her trip is mentioned in "Atlantic Adventurers" - partly for being the first solo woman - and partly for being the slowest crossing. She couldn't get it to self-steer, so hove-to for a good night's sleep every night.

 

[SurferShane]

No, you don't need valium or any other medication just on account of owning (or wanting to own) a wooden boat. I have successfully run a modest one for 30 years while holding down an ordinary (no extraordinary, but not super highly paid) job bringing up a family and doing all the other normal middle England things.

Thanks – I really appreciate your positive attitude. I have a similar philosophy. However, there is so much negativity about the cost of owning a boat over here - especially wooden ones - that many are now plainly status symbols for the rich. When I bought mine (steel hull with a top notch teak refit) the first thing 8/10 people would mention is that boats are money pits. Then there is the joke above that is so commonly used in the yachting community mainly due all the sharks out there wanting to prey on the deep pockets of those who bought boats for status or did not really know what they were getting themselves into.

I suppose I should admit that even the rich tend to avoid wooden boats and opt for shinny new well marketed fibreglass production models. Given the low demand for wooden boats due the negative attitudes the dedicated can still find some absolute bargains.

Please don’t think I am getting too far off the original question. Again threads like this are excellent resources for refining which boats are worthy of purchase and upkeep. I am also going to have to keep an eye out for the books mentioned. Oh, nothing either against the “rich”. Some work hard for their money and maybe if I did the same instead of surfing and sailing all over the place my bank account would be looking a lot healthier?

 

[Cornishman]

Border Maid is 62 years old (clinker mahogany on oak) and there's a boat two pontoons along built in 1894 (in Fairlie) which has not yet required restoration and is still sailing.

I guess that the 1894 yacht from Fairle is perhaps a Fifer, and they have a reputation for longevity as did Camper & Nicholson yachts of that era. I sailed two of the Island Cruising Club's yachts back in the 1970s both of which were in fine condition for their age. Hoshi, 72 foot gaff schooner by C & N in 1909 was a fine example while the younger Irina VII by Fife in the 1930s looked likely to survive another 30 or more years. Later I part owned a 100 years old Plymouth Hooker (pitch pine on oak frames) and on drilling holes in the bulwarks for new whisker shrouds the smell of the pine resin was immediately apparent. She had a long history as a fishing boat before becoming a yacht based on the River Exe sometime before WW2. She was used as a crabber out of Newton Ferrers for a number of years in the 1960s and early 70s before we restored her to yacht status. I won't be around to see the first 100 years old plastic yacht!

 

[oldfrank]

I rather feel Humphry Barton had missed the point. Wooden boats are meant to be renewable. If an oak floor rots, then it's not too difficult to take it out and replace it. Expressions such as 'design life' can be misleading - wooden boats don't suddenly rot away all at once and disappear over night. Proper maintenance will extend design life - maybe to the point where only the air in the middle remains original - but at least the owner still has 'his' boat.

Usually economics have more involvement than 'design life'. If it's made out of wood, it can be repaired, regardless of design but sometimes owners take decisions based on economic repair - which I don't think is quite the same thing. Most owners of old wooden boats will admit to having either commissioned or carried out work that they know to be economically stupid.

I must say that I do agree about keeping rain water out - it really can be fatal.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

I guess that the 1894 yacht from Fairle is perhaps a Fife , and they have a reputation for longevity as did Camper & Nicholson yachts of that era.

Indeed although where I live a Fifer (as opposed to a Fife) is a person from the Kingdom of Fife rather than a boat. The vessel I referrred to is Hatasoo, the last Clyde 18' built. It is said that she repaid her building costs in proze money in her first season racing, and that no more boats were commissioned for the class as it was obvious to all that competition was now futile!

 

[monkey_trousers]

Half the fun with a wooden boat (to me anyway) is putting it to rights. I often feel those of the bottomless cheque book variety that are 'wooden boat enthusiasts' by virtue of being able to throw endless amounts of money at a boatyard to make it all it lovely and perfect are missing out on a huge amount, if not the whole point of wooden boat ownership.

I believe it doesn't cost the earth either if you are prepared to roll your sleeves up and get stuck in.

I was quoted £14000 to replace the deck. I did it myself, and actually did a hell of a lot more than the quote was covering for a fraction of that. The quote was for 1 deck beam and the planking, and they were proposing larch for the deck beam

7 deck beams in 8x6" (longest is 15'), 14 knees, beamshelf and 5 frame heads, cover boards, all in oak, plus a few hundred metres of douglas fir for the deck planks, nails, cotton etc etc

total cost for materials was under £800. I learnt a huge amount, made some mistakes early on which were corrected, thoroughly enjoyed (mostly!) doing it, and know the thing is good for decades

the satisfaction of doing it is priceless

replanking the hull at the minute, 8 planks 6" by 1.5" larch (15' or so), plus rubbing strakes all the way around (100'), tie boards etc cost me £127 for the timber

 

[Kilter]

I've just been sorely tempted by an old wooden boat. It's the same class as the one I first learned to sail on.
The seller claims it's 1890, but the builders weren't building at the location until 1893. Still an old lady though.

I like that!

 

[Bajansailor]

The Alden ketch Walkabout (sistership to Svaap and Mirelle) was built in Australia in 1952 of a local very high quality timber called jarrah - she is in immaculate condition today, I think with still all of her original hull planking, although most of the frames have been renewed after they cracked.
More about her here - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148456

The S & S yawl Stormy Weather was built in 1931 by the Nevins Yacht Yard in City Island New York of mahogany on american white oak frames - her previous owner acquired her in (I think) the late 70's in Tortola, carried out a fairly comprehensive re-fit including completely re-framing her (all of her frames had gone brittle and cracked), and fitting a new timber main mast and a new teak-on-plywood deck.
He then proceeded to do over 30 odd transatlantics with her over the next 15 odd years.
When he sold her she was a bit tatty (having been maintained on a shoe string all these years), but still seaworthy, and I think she STILL had all of her original mahogany planking almost 70 years later.
Incidentally, Stormy was apparently built with no joints at all in the hull planking apart from the sheerstrake each side (which had a joint amidships) - every other hull plank was full length, and she is 54' LOA.
More about her here - http://www.stormy.ca/marine/index.html

 

[ccscott49]

I've just been sorely tempted by an old wooden boat. It's the same class as the one I first learned to sail on.
The seller claims it's 1890, but the builders weren't building at the location until 1893. Still an old lady though.

You have a damn good eye for lines/beauty, as I've seen many times before!

 

[gamerchic6901]

Me and my husband currently own a boat thats 67 years + old and we still love it!

Maintenance is key!

 

[chinita]

The secret is to buy one in good condition, learn how to look after it yourself and never neglect it.

100% agree. I was lucky in finding a very good one. I was even more fortunate in being able to do a one year wooden boatbuilding course to learn all about construction and maintenance.

Before the course I have never picked up a chisel (other than to open a tin of paint!) there is not one inch of that boat which I do not understand. There is not one job I would be scared to tackle - either alone or with selected help. She is a joy to own and the pride of ownership is worth more than any boat 1000 times her value.

 

[Easticks28]

Boats on the Norfolk Broads live their lives in fresh water, and there are a number of those in the River Cruiser class which are now over 100 years old.
Coincidentally, there is a thread on this topic on a local forum
http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=25&Topic=22231

 

[cliffordpope]

Xenia formerly Babs formerly Llama was built at Beccles, Norfolk, in about 1880, and sailed on the Broads until 1984.
After an extensive rebuild I relaunched her at Burton, Milford Haven, in 2007.

The hull is about 75% original, the deck is new, the upper works rebuilt using the original cabin sides.

Past owners attributed the longevity of the planking to the annual practice of applying a concoction of hot bitumin and Stockholm tar, and tipping a gallon of creosote into the bilges each winter while ashore.

 

[Eastermaid]

Differant World

In the same book half way through their voyage HB States "we have lowered our standards we have now taken to using the same spoon for both our boiled eggs and tea at breakfast" Different world.

 

[oldfrank]

Did George Wright of Beccles build Xenia?

 

[cliffordpope]

Sorry, slip of the fingers. She was built at Brundall, builder unknown. I kept her at Beccles for several years up to 1984.
The first owner was Arthur Goldspink, landlord of the Red House at Cantley. Then owned by the English family, boatbuilders. Then Tristram Eeles, half brother of the real James Bond, the ornithologist. Then Valentine Dyall, actor who played "The Man in Black".