Life Jacket Belts are positively dangerous!!

saltwater_gypsy

saltwater_gypsy

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I was talking to a pal who is ex-helicopter crew and he has some strong views about current lifejacket design.

(1) Automatic inflation is a deathtrap if the boat inverts and the lifebelt inflates when the wearer is inside the cabin.

(2) There are various other circumstances where a quick release belt like a standard aircraft belt could let a trapped wearer escape.

I also think that the present belt design is very poor in that the buckle is difficult to fasten and unfasten and it is almost impossible to tighten the belt single handed.
Is there room for improvement here????
 
(1) Automatic inflation is a deathtrap if the boat inverts and the lifebelt inflates when the wearer is inside the cabin.
(2) There are various other circumstances where a quick release belt like a standard aircraft belt could let a trapped wearer escape.


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I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd guess the instances of lifejacket wearers being injured and knocked overboard unconscious or then suffering cold-shock - in which cases auto-inflation is a definite lifesaver - are much more prevalent than those where people are trapped in an inverted water-filled cabin.

I don't recall attempting to release my inflated lifejacket harness in the water during a sea-survival training exercise, but if my life depended on it I'm sure I'd be able to use both hands to release the buckle.

One downside of an airline style quick-release buckle is that it could inadvertantly do just that!
 
I had my lifejacket inflate accidentally this year. (The manual release button snagged)
It was very difficult to continue the race with an inflated jacket, but I was quite unable to undo the buckle until I deflated the jacket.

Would be difficult to do that whilst trapped in an upturned yacht.

However I agree a tiny risk compared to that of being swept overgoard.
 
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knocked overboard unconscious or then suffering cold-shock - in which cases auto-inflation is a definite lifesaver

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In such cases would a dry suit and a helmet not be vastly better?
 
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In such cases would a dry suit and a helmet not be vastly better?

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lil_stig.jpg


Oh yeah, much better...

OP, a good sailor always carries a knife, job sorted.
 
Well I am ex RN helo aircrew and don't agree. In a helo an automatic inflator would be a deathtrap. But as said above I am far more concerned about going over the side unconscious (like being hit by the boom maybe).

I quite like the idea of adjusting my jacket to fit me and not having to fiddle with it every time I put it on.

Quick release - no way, if I am in the water and relying on the thing I don't want any way of inadvertently releasing it. AicrewMae West Jackets actually button up (3 buttons) at the front and are just as hard to remove for this reason.
 
20 years in the Australian navy as aircrew and now 25 years as a professional fisherman. While the seat harnesses have quick releases, the Mae wests certainly don't, I'm with HoratioHb on that one.

Interestingly along the NSW coast where I work its compulsory for amatuer mariners to wear a life jacket when crossing a bar. Professional fishermen don't have to for safety reasons!
 
Actually I wonder why inflatable lifejackets for the masses can not be the same style as aircrew mae wests. Very comfortable, dont need those crutch straps. Mesh backs hold every thing in the right place with out being hot. Reduce the size of the buoyancy chambers a bit as most yachtsmen wont be carrying weapons, Sarbi beacons or rocket flares. Only a little more material but the numbers of manufacturers would keep the cost down.
 
Hang on a bit though. An aircraft ditching over water carries a near certainty the crew will still be inside when they enter the water, so a self inflater is a real danger.

I would have expected (tho i have no real info) that yacht crew will nearly always enter the water from the deck in which case a self inflater is a definite advantage particularly if they are unconscious, when it is a life saver. The chances of being trapped below in an inverted yacht are virtually nil - unless you are Tony Bullimore.

Two entirely different scenarios IMHO, and whats right for one aint right for t'other.

Ditto the quick release argument. I certainly dont want any risk of my lifejacket undoing itself in the water, though it does seem to me there is room to improve the ease of adjustment to ensure it fits properly.

Point is: yotties very very rarely have to escape from a confined space AFTER entering the water while aircrew nearly always will.
 
I agree with that. Lifejackets are rarely worn below decks - usually only when making a quick trip to the heads or chart table. The risk of falling in unconscious from a collision with the boom etc. is a real one.

In an aircraft you start off on the inside in every case so getting out is the first priority. To get out at all you must be conscious or helped by someone and in either case the jacket can be inflated manually.

Different purposes, different equipment.
 
Isn't the whole point not be be knocked into the water?

While I do agree with the wearing of lifejackets when the situation/need arises, I do not agree with wearing them at all times. On a yacht that is pitching and rolling around the place, the chances of getting the manual release snagged is 10 fold. An inflated lifejacket is a clumsy and dangerous thing to wear around a yacht! I know we carry spare gas bottles and arming kits, but how many others do?

We tend to use a military safety belt ( http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=41CQ&C=C1417 ), which is designed to handle parachutes and such like and has a 7,000lb test load on the buckles and webbing, together with a 3 point harness you stay attached to the boat at all times. They are light, comfatable and easy to wear (The kids think they are really cool., so wear them without complaint - but they think lifejackets are for babies and complain about wearing them!), another plus point in using these is that you have somewhere to attach your multitool and safety knife as well, they can also be worn under your lifejacket and it wont interfere with its opperation.

So although slightly off the thread with that little bit of info, I'm all for automatic lifejackets.
 
Fair comment Aberman, and I would agree that a good safety harness is an equally essential bit of kit at the right time and place. But in single or shorthanded sailing, if you are unlucky enough to part company with the boat under way, I think your chance of survival is far greater in a lifejacket (possibly 8 - 12 hours life expectancy before terminal hypothermia) than being towed along by your boat at 5 - 6 kts, which will probably drown you in a few minutes. I know I would not be strong enought to pull myself back to the boat at those sort of speeds.

Either way you have no chance of regaining the deck without assistance.

Is there any way an Autohelm can be rigged with a 'kill cord' on an outboard, so that it disconnects and stops the yacht sailing if the helmsman goes OB?
 
Aircrew life jackets are all manual operated. The manual control is mounted were it can not be accidentally inflated. The tricky bit is getting out of an aircraft. Helo crew practice getting out of a helo inverted in the water. I was fixed wing and annually practiced staggering out a small door with a parachute and dinghy on my back as well as the lifejacket.

The Mae West type will actually support the average bloke in the water with out being inflated.

Plenty of good reading about Fastnet and Sydney Hobart races for first hand experiences on safety equipment

When I sail singlehanded I wear a dinghy buoyancy vest I have modified with a built in harness and extra reinforcing. Comfortable, does not accidentally inflate. has plenty of buoyancy. Similar products are available for rock fishermen or temporary Australians as I prefer to call them.
 
Since I started this post , maybe I can come back in.

On the question of inflation inside the boat I am in agreement with the majority that the advantages of automatic inflation are greater than the remotely possible disadvantage.

Regarding the buckle design I still think it is rubbish!!!!!

Since starting this post I have checked through some of the lifejacket designs and Spinlock seem to be heading in the right direction with a compromise between aircrew requirements and recreational sailors needs.
Have a look at
http://www.spinlockdeckware.com/
 
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