Licensing yacht ownership?

Fiction sounding better than fact? Perhaps you didn't see my (rather nerdy) post quoting the Irish parliamentary debate of 1961. Long time ago I agree but simple pre-war driving tests were abandoned from the 40s to the early 60s in Ireland, then re-implemented despite the advice of the experts who'd found that licenced drivers caused more accidents than unlicenced ones. Intrigued to hear about the 70s amnesty for provisional drivers - that's news to me.

I wouldn't argue too strongly against a licencing system that was aimed at tackling real problems but I just don't believe that an actual licence system would do the job. It would just cost a lot of our money and manufacturers would have a whole new industry in creating craft which met whatever exemptions were proposed.

We'd end up with PWCs with tiny "sails" so they could be classified as dinghys, or stripping nav lights off motor boats so they could be reclassed as "Day leisure - licence band 99". We would outdo Brussels with our contortions and buy licence-exempt craft as magnificent as the Robin Reliant.

I'd rather just sail and try to keep out of the way of other idiots.
 
Can you post me an offical link which states the legislation is being brought in because of "the increasing number of fast powerboats behaving rudely"

Thanks.
 
My boat is listed in at least three places:
- MCA - radio licence
- Part 1 register
- Coastguard CG 66 scheme
Is it necessary to have a fourth list?
As for me, I do not have a single qualification to sail except that I have been doing it for over 50 years. i can't help- wondering what hoops the young bureaucrat will put me through!!
 
The problem it will solve is that with everything will be made in China and all telephones answered in India a whole UK department of government can be created and justify their existance.

The BBC has for years given out the shipping forecast but note that is now only done "on behalf of the MCA". Now that is progress.

Now if someone can point me in the direction of a LW receiver that will get the R4 broadcast at the furthest point going South I would be grateful. My Sony SW/LW/MW/FM receiver struggled some days to get it even in Cherbourg!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Can you post me an offical link which states the legislation is being brought in because of "the increasing number of fast powerboats behaving rudely"

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I am interpreting politician language. Swedish infrastructure minister Ulrica Messing is quoted in this article saying (my translation):

– At the same time as we can see an increasíng number of vessels in our waters, we also can see faster and faster boats. It is obvious that this requires more responsiblility and insight about possibilities and problems with travel at sea."

It is not difficult to sea that she is talking about an increasing number of fast boats not behaving responsibly, is it?

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/ekot/arkiv.asp?DagensDatum=2005-08-17&Artikel=674562
 
Juist saw in Sailing Today that Jersey may "consider some sort of licensing scheme for boat owners" after a RIB accident
 
[ QUOTE ]
" At the same time as we can see an increasíng number of vessels in our waters, we also can see faster and faster boats. It is obvious that this requires more responsiblility and insight about possibilities and problems with travel at sea."

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there any greater weasel words than 'It is obvious that ...' coming from a politicin?
 
Be afraid then

So you worry about unlicensed 6-tonners on the road?

Have you ever stopped to consider what standards some of the Eastern European 38-tonners are working to (or for that matter perhaps what some of the rogue local trucks are doing)? Admittedly my experience is 20+ years out of date but some of the overseas plated trucks that arrived at my warehouse for loading were scary to behold in terms of how long they had been operating for (and yes we did have tacographs in those days).

I suspect there is far more chance of getting wiped out by one of these in what is a regulated environment than by a 6-tonne charter yacht.
 
High focus in Scandinavia

Okay, not living there but know something about the Swedish boating scene. For every seven members of the population there is one boat in Sweden and of those, the vast majority are small motor runabouts used to service the island hopping activities in archepeligos. The islands are, I think, a useful spot to have a drink without worrying about the police?

When I was last in Sweden I was told there were so many people waiting to serve jail terms for road drink driving in Gothenburg (one drink is enough to push you over the edge and morning breathalysers are favourites, apparently?) that there was a booking system to secure your slot in the queue. If true, how pragmatic is that? But I bet alcohol has something to do with "rude behaviour" out on the water too?

Whatever, I bet that that fast powerboats are more obvious to politicians in Sweden, especially as many of them use them themselves.

Fascinatingly the kind of legislation we've seen elsewhere in Europe has done nothing to improve the safety record beyond levels achieved by countries with voluntary schemes. In most cases legislation appears to have been enacted in countries where the voluntary system was poor, or ineffective. I'm not sure how good the schemes are in Sweden as things stand, would be interesting to know.
 
Re: Radio to Receive LW

[ QUOTE ]
Now if someone can point me in the direction of a LW receiver that will get the R4 broadcast at the furthest point going South I would be grateful. My Sony SW/LW/MW/FM receiver struggled some days to get it even in Cherbourg!

[/ QUOTE ]

Our old Sony (the smallest and cheapest) wouldn't get Radio 4 in S Brittany. When it finally was beyond repair, we bought a bigger Sony Model ICF704 and we were receiving Radio 4 LW in La Rochelle last week. No connection with Sony - I just went into Curry's or Dixons and chose a Radio that had LW.
 
Hummm...

...but your problem with speed and power caps is really that some of the highest profile fatal accidents remain in the yachting community. Most (not all unfortunately) powerboats seek shelter at approprioate times when the weather cuts in, whereas some yachts only start to get going once in conditions that, by definition, make rescues more difficult and expensive.

I suspect any move towards legislation would encompass the vast majority of us. The motivation for it, sadly, will come from those who rarely engage in environments such as this.

Perhaps the biggest issue for us all is that the social infrastructure of boating is not as sound as it once was. Clubs are often seen as irrelevant or distant, we often fight between ourselves over certain issues and as a consequence there is not perhaps the same common purpose once enjoyed. Not sure if this a reflection of society or the inevitable consequence of 30 years of growth in leisure boating but the advantages of shared knowledge and etiquette appear to have been diluted over the last few years perhaps?
 
Re: High focus in Scandinavia

[ QUOTE ]
Fascinatingly the kind of legislation we've seen elsewhere in Europe has done nothing to improve the safety record beyond levels achieved by countries with voluntary schemes. In most cases legislation appears to have been enacted in countries where the voluntary system was poor, or ineffective.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't find any statistics on the numbers of serious accidents in the leisure sector. However, I can't believe that there are enough to justify legislation. It seems to me that the driving force behind possible legislation is more a general perception that standards of behaviour in relation to other water users have fallen to unacceptable levels. That is just following an almost universal drop in those standards across society.

The next thing will be ASBOs for boaters.


How anyone can thinke that you can legislate a correction of that is beyond belief.
 
Change of society ?

I think with the increased number of boats, the scene has changed in that many are not so 'Club' minded ... it seems that as more people come in marinas fill up and not many new clubs form. It is true hat most clubs have waiting lists - so there is demand for them, but I believe the numbers are not similar.
The 'help-each other' attitude and comradeship of clubs does not equate to the general attitude of marinas, where many boats don't know the owners of the next boat etc.

Legislation in my observations haven't created any better boating generally and I boat in UK as well as Baltic where their are completely opposite systems. In fact I find UK generally safer even though its more boat crowded !

As with most things I believe that Legislation will come and it will be put in place by those not directly involved or participating in the sport .... with loads of advise from select committees and invited bodies .... whether that advise is used or not being another matter - but it will be 'seen' to be done.

Me - I don't mind as long as its reasonable and sensible without too much palaver ... but with what normally happens - I'm a supporter of voluntary measures.
 
ASBOs for boaters

Brilliant idea!

Can't stand the idea of licencing everyone but being able to slap an ASBO on the idiots is superb.

"Trapper Marie-Louise must remove sails and halyards for 12 months and use the motor only, to avoid annoying neighbours with continuous and offensive lack of frapping"

"Oceanis 303 Gunter 2 to keep at least 12 fenders on permanently even at sea due to steering without due care and competence"

"Varnished 40 foot Harrison Butler must sail at least once a week, rain or shine because being tied up in the marina all year round seems such a crying waste of a beautiful boat"

I'll volunteer to be on the ASBO board, as long as my boat is exempt.
 
Forum blinkers

I believe (nothing to back this up, just my own feelings) that in many cases we have become blinkered through our own interest in the sport, reading specialist magazines and spending time talking to other like minded people on forums or in clubs.

When I was involved in dog rescue for Staffies, a breed on the edge of legislation apparently, it was the number one topic; Will it be included on the dangerous dogs act blah blah.

Now on here, every second thread appears to concern the the threat of impending legislation and licencing for lilos up....

How about, those who are not interested in boats couldn't give a damn. They do not notice leisure boat incidents reported in the press, we do because we hunt them out. How many people who use the BBC news site go straight to the boat article when they see it.

Then on here the news link is given, ooh we are going to be licenced comes the cry. Yet who is actually asking for it in London, anyone?

No one else cares about boats but those who care about boats.

Just my thoughts!
 
Re: Forum blinkers

Couldn't have put it better myself. FWIW, I beleive that legislation will come if there are enough incidents where lives are lost to bring the whole thing to the publics general attention. Something like a jetski killing a swimming child or a drunken yottie t-boning and sinking a dinghy full of kids.

Other than that we are like any other sport such as mountaineering where if we cock it up it is us who are main recipients of the consequences. There is no public good being served by legislation otherwise it is legislation to protect us from ourselves.
 
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