Licensing requirements to sail on Lake Constance (Bodensee)

[Angele]

I'm going to the German part of Lake Constance later in the year and was wondering how easy it would be to hire a yacht for a day or two without having to pass any exams - a written test (even multiple choice) in German would be a complete non-starter for me given my German vocab is pretty much limited to understanding menus and signposts.

So far as I can tell, there are various levels of licences in Germany. This from http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/sailing.html gives a good summary:

Essentially there are three levels of courses that prepare one for sailing on Germany's inland waters. The Basic level or Grundkurs shows the elementary maneuvers and is entirely practical experience easily acquired. Then comes the "Theoretical and Practical Inland Sport-Vessel License" which gets fairly involved with all sailing maneuvers, rules and regulations. An additional theory requirement is added for those wishing to sail on Lake Constance, known as the Bodensee

So, sailing on Bodense requires an additional theory test. If you pass that you can get a "Bodenseeschifferpatent".

I hold an ICC. I understand that Germany should recognise that as sufficient for me to be sailing a German boat in German waters (hopefully including inland waters), but I'm assuming I would still need to take the extra theory test for the Bodensee.

Anyone know for certain?

If I do need to take the test to charter a yacht, I think I can get away with chartering a sailing dinghy (under 12 m2 sail area) without any qualifications.

 

[telford_mike]

A CEVNI should be enough, and you can do this online - it's pretty simple.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEVNI

 

[Angele]

A CEVNI should be enough, and you can do this online - it's pretty simple.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEVNI

I don't think that is the whole story. There is a licence that is specific to Bodensee and additional to the requirements for an inland waterways licence:

Sportbootführerschein-Binnen
Dies ist der amtliche Führerschein für alle anderen Binnengewässer.
Sie erhalten ihn auch ohne weitere Prüfung nach bestandener Prüfung des Bodenseeschifferpatents.

Or, in English:

Sportbootführerschein-inland
This is the official license for all other inland waters.
You get it without further examination after passing the examination of the Bodensee master's certificate.

(Isn't Google translate wonderful).

So, you can get a licence for inland waterways if you hold the Bodensee certificate, but not vice-versa, I fear.

Bodenseeschifferpatent
Dies ist der amtliche Schein, der für den Bodensee vorgeschrieben ist. Sie können damit Fahrzeuge mit Maschinenantrieb, deren Maschinenleistung 4,4 kW übersteigt sowie Segelfahrzeuge mit mehr als 12 m² Segelfläche führen.

In English:

Bodensee master's certificate
This is the official certificate prescribed for Lake Constance. You can use it to carry propelled vehicles whose engine power exceeds 4.4 kW and sailing vessels with more than 12 m² sail area.

 

[Angele]

Bump.

Anyone got any knowledge on this?

 

[BrianH]

Bump.

Anyone got any knowledge on this?

It would depend from which country one started from .... Austria, Germany or Switzerland.

Edit.
Just read the OP . reminded it would be Germany. Ignore the above.

 

[Angele]

It would depend from which country one started from .... Austria, Germany or Switzerland.

Edit.
Just read the OP . reminded it would be Germany. Ignore the above.

Would I have any more luck if I got a ferry over to the Swiss side and hired a boat from there?

I know the Germans are particularly renowned for their love of rules and licencing requirements, but I'm not sure the Swiss or Austrians are any more laid back.

 

[BrianH]

Would I have any more luck if I got a ferry over to the Swiss side and hired a boat from there?

I know the Germans are particularly renowned for their love of rules and licencing requirements, but I'm not sure the Swiss or Austrians are any more laid back.

In CH any sailing boat with a sail area 16 sq m or more needs a Swiss licence. I used to rent a soling which was on the limit, without one.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Would I have any more luck if I got a ferry over to the Swiss side and hired a boat from there?

I know the Germans are particularly renowned for their love of rules and licencing requirements, but I'm not sure the Swiss or Austrians are any more laid back.

As far as I can see, you need exactly the same permit whether you start in Germany, Austria or Switzerland. There is a holiday pass available without examination for people who hold an inland waterways license from one of these states, but I think you have to be a resident to get it. Foreign qualifications explicitly do not count: see https://www.bodenseekreis.de/landkreis-tourismus/wassersport/ferienpatent.html

I suggest emailing or phoning one of the Bodensee charter companies and asking their advice. They'll almost certainly speak some english.

 

[Yngmar]

Boating on the Bodensee (Lake Constance) is regulated by the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodensee-Schifffahrtsordnung (Lake Constance shipping regulations), which all 3 countries have agreed to, so it wouldn't matter which country you start in. To sail in anything more than a dinghy there, you will need to be the holder of the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodenseeschifferpatent which requires theoretical and practical exams.

However, if you're the holder of a valid German boating license, for a small fee you can request a "Ferienpatent" (https://www.bodenseekreis.de/landkreis-tourismus/wassersport/ferienpatent.html), which is an extension of your license to Lake Constance for the limited duration of one month (intended for holiday goers). Now I have no idea if your ICC will be acceptable for that, but it is probably worth asking (email address at the page linked). It may be that they want the CEVNI endorsement on your ICC, which is fairly cheap & easy to get via an online exam.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Now I have no idea if your ICC will be acceptable for that ...

As I said in the post before yours, it will not. The link I gave says "Ausländische Scheine können nicht anerkannt werden" - "Foreign certificates can not be recognized". As I wrote, he could presumably add a Ferienpatent to a German/Austrian/Swiss qualification, which shifts the question to whether he is eligible for any of those.

 

[Yngmar]

"Ausländische Scheine können nicht anerkannt werden" - "Foreign certificates can not be recognized"

Oops, had missed that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Oops, had missed that.

No problem. I wrote an entire reply recommending the OP to go the Ferienpatent route before spotting that it wouldn't apply and deleting the lot.

 

[Angele]

Thanks for your detailed responses guys.

I think you have confirmed my worst fears. I haven't yet gotten round to adding a CEVNI endorsement to my ICC. I was originally thinking this might have been the trigger to make me do it. Unfortunately, as JumbleDuck has pointed out, that isn't good enough.

I don't have any German/Swiss/Austrian licence, so it looks like I would have to take the whole lot of theory and practical exams. I guess I could nip across the lake and take the tests in Switzerland as, I assume, this would give me the option of doing the written exams in French. With a fair wind I'd cope with that, I'd just need to brush up on my French nautical vocab (babord, tribord, tirant d'eau etc). But, now that anything Swiss has suddenly become obscenely expensive, I think it is probably easier and cheaper to stick to hiring out a sailing dinghy or two on the German side.