License requirements for Yacht Bluewater cruising

[laika]

The RYA courses are a starting point. They're a recognition that you got the stuff you were supposed to know. People frequently knock "fast track" yachtmaster courses assuming people come off them thinking they know everything. That's nonsense. I did one and regarded it not as the pinnacle of yachting excellence but as my "basic training": A solid grounding to build experience on. I thoroughly recommend the "fast track" approach so long as you see it as an entry point, not an exit. I reckon you can become a very competent sailor in a year from a standing start but you have to live it every single day: do the fast track course, do deliveries, hang about boat yards and work for education rather than money. That would not appear to be compatible with family life but hey, I'm not a family guy so what do I know?

I understand the "buy a boat, go sailing" approach and obviously it has worked for many people. Would I do that? Not personally. Would I *do courses*, buy a boat, go bluewater sailing? Yes. Would I do it with children? No, see my previous post. I'd be happy to learn on the way with a willing partner but not with children I was responsible for. But then everyone's risk profiles are different, I'd be pretty sure there are loads of people who just head off into the blue with kids, and doing it with yachtmaster ocean under your belt is infinitely better than that. If the OP is singapore-based with a lot of money to spend on a boat, perhaps he's a highly self-confident businessman rather than an innate worrier like me.

Fast Track courses would be a small investment compared with what is proposed for the boat here. If the OP has parents/in-laws to pack the kids off to for 4 months, he and his wife could do it together. Alternatively do it one at a time. You can do a lot worse than flying to the UK and do one of these courses in winter. It's guaranteed to either make you obsessed or swear never to set foot on a boat again and better to find that out on an £11k course than 2 months into ownership of a $750k boat.

I am here assuming Paul wants to head off within the next three years but if it’s a long term plan ignore this post

 

[canvey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Paul, but the feeling I'm getting is more like he's going for a superyacht experience rather than sailing which, if so, is more like a Warsash-style ship master training course.

If it is sailing-sailing, I don't know Singapore but there is a great school, with English training, in Japan. Aoki Sailing School. They teach to ASA standards. It's run by Yoh Aoki who, at 21, built his own 21' boat, then sailed it around the world via Cape Horn.

They'll set you up with custom, one-on-one or small class courses.

 

[Kelpie]

A couple of years ago I helped a mate deliver his new-to-him boat back home. He was fresh from the RYA diesel maintenance course and had thrown everything at the boat, leaving nothing to chance. Engine serviced and a whole lot of spares put aboard.
My first question to him was how many spare fuel filter elements he had. He enthusiastically showed me three of the fine diesel filters for the engine. But none for the coarse filter/separator, which he didn't even know existed. In my own experience 90% of the trouble with boat engines is when the coarse filter blocks.
I can't say I was left very impressed with the RYA course if it leaves someone unaware that there might be two filters on their engine.

There's simply no substitute for spending time on boats, mucking about with engines, taking to people who do this for a living. I started working on a commercial boat in 2014 and hope to set off bluewater next year. I've done day skipper and advanced powerboat and don't see the need to do any more courses tbh. I learnt far more from actually getting out on the real world than I did from the RYA.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I wasn't very impressed by the RYA diesel maintenance course, either - I got it for free because a Southampton training centre bundled it with the VHF course I needed.

I think the trainer said that the RYA established the course because there was such a gap in the market - apart from it, the shortest marine diesel course otherwise available is a 3-day one. The MCA Approved Engine Certificate , I guess.

The RYA diesel maintenance course struck me as no better than you'd learn from servicing your own car and what you'd know about the engine by the time you're Day Skipper.

I think the only thing I learned was how to bleed the diesel, just so long as the engine had a rubber priming bulb on top of the fuel filter and didn't need bleeding anywhere else. I was prepared to bleed an engine if it was the exact same configuration as those they had in the classroom, and not at all for bleeding my own engine (which I did recently and which was somewhat different).

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Do the minimum training required to charter in your area and then charter a boat and take the family sailing for a couple of weeks.

You will know then if you and they still fancy the idea.

 

[canvey]

When you write sailing, Paul do you actually mean "sailing" as in sails? I was wondering how you were going to manage sails that big by yourself. But if you just mean motoring, then I suppose that's a whole other equation. There are some crazy ass luxury houseboats on the market now, sort of mobile living platform, (also here). Or may be some high tech, automated yacht, like the Morris M-Series? Stunning boats, but still very sailor-y, as in they lean. I know you wrote catamaran, or suppose could go to a trimaran, but I don't really know them.

I was thinking what was the biggest boat, suitable for 4 people, that one person could imaginably handle themselves and came up with a junk rigged Colvin Schooner. But that's a whole other learning curve.

What kind of boat are you thinking off, response really depends on it.

 

[Paul D H]

Hello everyone

I think maybe I've used the incorrect terminology in my original post.

My plan is to investigate and work towards spending an extended time on a yacht with my family, Island hopping around Indonesia. I'm not sure if this is considered Blue Water cruising or coastal yachting or some other name. This is a three to five-year plan, to investigate, research and implement if all the various factors work out. My wife and I are both planning on learning how to sail and from there we would sail to our level of competency and build from there. The entire process is a journey, with no expectations or specific time frame.

Some of the advice already received on this forum has been fantastic, which is really appreciated.

I live in a Marina in Singapore and view many 40 to 50-foot catamarans every day with people living on board and sailing the area. Maybe, if everything goes to plan, in a few years I will be there myself.

Thank you.
Paul

 

[Paul D H]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Paul, but the feeling I'm getting is more like he's going for a superyacht experience rather than sailing which, if so, is more like a Warsash-style ship master training course.

If it is sailing-sailing, I don't know Singapore but there is a great school, with English training, in Japan. Aoki Sailing School. They teach to ASA standards. It's run by Yoh Aoki who, at 21, built his own 21' boat, then sailed it around the world via Cape Horn.

They'll set you up with custom, one-on-one or small class courses.

Hi Canvey: No, I'm investigating 40-50 foot catamarans to possibly one day do an extended sailing trip with the family. This is the start of a very long journey. Everyone starts somewhere.
Cheers

 

[Paul D H]

When you write sailing, Paul do you actually mean "sailing" as in sails? I was wondering how you were going to manage sails that big by yourself. But if you just mean motoring, then I suppose that's a whole other equation. There are some crazy ass luxury houseboats on the market now, sort of mobile living platform, (also here). Or may be some high tech, automated yacht, like the Morris M-Series? Stunning boats, but still very sailor-y, as in they lean. I know you wrote catamaran, or suppose could go to a trimaran, but I don't really know them.

I was thinking what was the biggest boat, suitable for 4 people, that one person could imaginably handle themselves and came up with a junk rigged Colvin Schooner. But that's a whole other learning curve.

What kind of boat are you thinking off, response really depends on it.

Yes, I mean sailing a 40-50 foot catamaran. My wife and I are planning on both doing the courses together.

We will book in to do a private charter starting with the 5-day competent crew course, followed later by a 5 day, RYA Day Skipper practical course. The Day Skipper certificate is accepted for bareboat chartering in inshore waters by most charter companies, which gives us the opportunity to explore sailing as a family future.

 

[laika]

My plan is to investigate and work towards spending an extended time on a yacht with my family, Island hopping around Indonesia. I'm not sure if this is considered Blue Water cruising or coastal yachting or some other name. This is a three to five-year plan, to investigate, research and implement if all the various factors work out.

I was about to hit return on a reply to canvey pointing out that you get a nice late model used 13m cat for your budget rather than a superyacht

Island hopping with a 3-5 year time frame is a different proposition to setting off for the chagos archipelago next year

Note in your original training list there's some opportunity for compression of the RYA courses. You can skip "start yachting" (as perhaps you've already assumed). RYA instructors may berate me for saying that I see nothing in the "essential navigation" course that isn't covered in dayskipper theory. In many ways dayskipper theory is just "yachtmaster theory lite". Might be worth a chat with a sailing school about discounts they could give you for a string of courses for two of you.

Note that there's a bunch of other courses you may be interested in. VHF and diesel engine has been mentioned. VHF is essential. The one-day diesel course won't turn you into a mechanic. I did the 5 day MCA course and it didn't turn me into a mechanic. Perhaps some of our asia-based forumites could comment on whether there are any nets in the indonesian archipelago which might make a long range radio course (and installation of a MF/HF radio) worthwhile. Sea survival and first aid courses also useful. The 1 day RYA first aid course is pretty basic and the 5 day MCA course is more geared to large vessels with a medical officer on board so a good land-based first aid course might be just as useful. Cold water shock probably not so much of an issue in indonesia though obviously be familiar with secondary drowning etc.

 

[canvey]

Yes, I mean sailing a 40-50 foot catamaran. My wife and I are planning on both doing the courses together.

I think the only thing left for us to be able to help you now, is for you to post a picture of your wife, and let us know if she has any sisters.

 

[Skylark]

Hello everyone

I think maybe I've used the incorrect terminology in my original post.

My plan is to investigate and work towards spending an extended time on a yacht with my family, Island hopping around Indonesia. I'm not sure if this is considered Blue Water cruising or coastal yachting or some other name. This is a three to five-year plan, to investigate, research and implement if all the various factors work out. My wife and I are both planning on learning how to sail and from there we would sail to our level of competency and build from there. The entire process is a journey, with no expectations or specific time frame.

Some of the advice already received on this forum has been fantastic, which is really appreciated.

I live in a Marina in Singapore and view many 40 to 50-foot catamarans every day with people living on board and sailing the area. Maybe, if everything goes to plan, in a few years I will be there myself.

Thank you.
Paul

This and your subsequent new post sounds like an eminently achievable plan. It's good to read that your enthusiasm hasn't been dampened by many of the negative posts.

Training in the company of others works well as a shared experience, it's sometimes remarkable just how much you can learn from fellow students. A good instructor should also give an honest appraisal of your skills together with direction and encouragement towards your goals. Once you make a start along the RYA Cruising Scheme, I feel sure that you'll quickly get a sense of what you'll need as your progress your personal objective.

Best of luck, fair winds.

 

[canvey]

Ah, definitely coastal.

I wondered how on earth one of those luxury gin palaces would cope with pelagic sailing.

Lagoon sailing catamarans? With or without a sail?

If you're thinking of turning right as you exit Singapore, I might consider a gun license too.

 

[sailing.duffer]

Hello
I live in Singapore and have been given the following advice in terms of preparing to buy a yacht and take my family away on a liveaboard catamaran for an extended period of time, Bluewater cruising.

I'm at the very beginning of the journey, and would appreciate any advice people may like to give, especially regarding the best way to obtain the qualifications required to sail safetly. Thank you for your time.

My Situation:
* Sailing experience = none
* Family - 2 girls, 9 & 12-year-old and wife
* Budget for catamaran = AUD$500,000 - $900,000

First Steps:
* Get your Powered Pleasure Craft Driving License (PPCDL) - a requirement for Singapore ports
* Then complete the range of RYA Sailing cruising courses.
1) Practical Stills Courses
-> Start sailing - level 1
-> Basic skills - level 2

2) Cruising Courses
-> Start yachting
-> Competent Crew
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper

3) Navigation Courses
-> Essentail Navigation & Seamanship
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper/ Yachtmaster Offshore
-> Yachtmaster Ocean

Hello
I live in Singapore and have been given the following advice in terms of preparing to buy a yacht and take my family away on a liveaboard catamaran for an extended period of time, Bluewater cruising.

I'm at the very beginning of the journey, and would appreciate any advice people may like to give, especially regarding the best way to obtain the qualifications required to sail safetly. Thank you for your time.

My Situation:
* Sailing experience = none
* Family - 2 girls, 9 & 12-year-old and wife
* Budget for catamaran = AUD$500,000 - $900,000

First Steps:
* Get your Powered Pleasure Craft Driving License (PPCDL) - a requirement for Singapore ports
* Then complete the range of RYA Sailing cruising courses.
1) Practical Stills Courses
-> Start sailing - level 1
-> Basic skills - level 2

2) Cruising Courses
-> Start yachting
-> Competent Crew
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper

3) Navigation Courses
-> Essentail Navigation & Seamanship
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper/ Yachtmaster Offshore
-> Yachtmaster Ocean

Hi Paul, I think this is a marvelous plan. You can see that you are committed and humble in your approach to this journey. There is heaps of advice and all you need to do is pick through. Paper, Pencil and a pros and cons list. Getting out on the water with the family and gauging their enthusiasm. Then with everyone "onboard" go and make it happen. The key is ensuring the girls are 100% ( I had two daughters 12 & 7) who said out right that they hated it...So I sailed on my own and for longer trips with two crew mates. I am sure you will make the right decision - Happy Sailing!!!!

 

[Skylark]

I only have limited experience of cats, but I have an open mind.

Earlier this year I was invited by liveaboard friends to join them on their Atlantic crossing. A number of boats left the Canaries at about the same time. I recall 4 AWBs in the 40-45 ft range and 3 cats with similar LOA., all bound for the same Caribbean landing.

The wind was never less than 15kts with max gusts in the mid 30s. Average was probably around 20kts. Points of sail was either quarter or DDW.

We arrived first and the other two cats within 24 hours. The monohull were about 2-3 days behind.

It was a fairly comfortable ride even in the sometimes big, confused seas. The sails pulled us along like a chariot, almost always flat, even surfing down the rollers. Creature comforts aboard were very high, including regular fresh bread, catch of the day, warm tarts and ice cream ?

Talking with the monohull skippers later, they all had bumpy rides due to the typical Atlantic swell.

Didn’t see any MAB, most people seem to have more sense and have pensioned them off. ?