License requirements for Yacht Bluewater cruising

[Paul D H]

Hello
I live in Singapore and have been given the following advice in terms of preparing to buy a yacht and take my family away on a liveaboard catamaran for an extended period of time, Bluewater cruising.

I'm at the very beginning of the journey, and would appreciate any advice people may like to give, especially regarding the best way to obtain the qualifications required to sail safetly. Thank you for your time.

My Situation:
* Sailing experience = none
* Family - 2 girls, 9 & 12-year-old and wife
* Budget for catamaran = AUD$500,000 - $900,000

First Steps:
* Get your Powered Pleasure Craft Driving License (PPCDL) - a requirement for Singapore ports
* Then complete the range of RYA Sailing cruising courses.
1) Practical Stills Courses
-> Start sailing - level 1
-> Basic skills - level 2

2) Cruising Courses
-> Start yachting
-> Competent Crew
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper

3) Navigation Courses
-> Essentail Navigation & Seamanship
-> Day Skipper
-> Coastal Skipper/ Yachtmaster Offshore
-> Yachtmaster Ocean

 

[Wansworth]

Many people have all the certificates and the boat but still do not set off or if they do return having changed their minds,you have to have confidence in your ability to manage away from help you have to actually enjoy being on the water and you have to take your crew with you,try a trial adventure before getting too far along...

 

[Rafiki]

Why do you want to live as a family in accomodation less than the size of a small flat, buffetted by the wind, heated up by the sun, with relatively little shade and with days on end sailing with nothing to look at other than water. Spend the money on two good holidays a year visiting the places you might visit in your catamaran and when you are there hire a boat for a few days.

One reason many start down the route you plan but don't see it through is that by the time they are really ready to go their family situation has changed, or they get pretty damn frightened after their first storm.

 

[atol]

get your VHF licence and ppcdl, for singapore waters, go sailing.
There are lots of local skippers that are available for initial onboard tuition to show you basic boat handling,sailing and anchoring skills to get your PPCDL.
no need for all the other bits of paper,unless you want to have commercial endorsments.
a few trips to thailand and tioman island and you are good to go

 

[Kelpie]

The steepest learning curve as a sailor is how to keep your boat running and fix minor problems before they cause you real trouble. The actual sailing bit is pretty easy.
I'd be worried about jumping on to a huge expensive catamaran if I had zero experience. There's an awful lot of systems to go wrong on a boat like that.

But maybe you're already an experienced engineer out mechanic in which case you'll be fine ?

 

[Skylark]

Hello Paul and welcome to the forum,

Pretty hard to give definitive answers and you may get more relevant information by asking locally. The RYA site shows that the Republic of Singapore Yacht Club has affiliation. There's also a marina / yacht club at Changi. Another option may be to speak to a yacht broker. Google shows a few. Finally, there's a yacht show in October.

Sail licensing is dependent upon the passport of the skipper and the registry of the boat.

In your position and (wonderful) location, it may be a good family activity to take a dinghy sailing course as a fun introduction to sailing. There's a dinghy school along the ECP but I can't recall it's name or precise location.

Another option as an introduction to family sailing may be chartering. Some bases allow complete novices and provide help and support. As always, Google is your friend.

The RYA sail cruising scheme is very good and provides well established shorebased and waterbased training programs. For many, Day Skipper shorebased and Comp Crew followed by Day Skipper on a yacht prove adequate. Having a certificate to operate a VHF radio, together with a ships radio license, is required. As you have noted, there are other course to further your knowledge and experience, if you wish. It's all outlined in detail on the RYA website.

Family cruising on a cat is a great objective. I recently met an Australian couple doing something similar. Their kids had fledged but joined the boat occasionally. With no experience or qualification, they bought a cat in The Med. The following season they crossed the Atlantic with no bother at all.

 

[NormanS]

I don't want to spoil your dream, but if it was me, I would at least try sailing as a family, before shelling out thousands of dollars on something which you might not even enjoy. Do a charter trip first.

 

[RJJ]

Hi, you have the list of courses "right".

If you tick all of those off you will learn a lot and be well on the way. And you'll learn if you actually like it. And, hopefully, learn the most important lesson of all, which is always to be learning.

 

[GTom]

Definitely charter a similar boat before you buy it. You can combine this with a certification. I am unfamiliar with licensing requirements for Singapoore but you'd most likely sail further away from home anyway. Most of the world and the sea doesn't need a "driving licence" (some €uropean countries do). Give yourself and your family a couple of weeks on water to get a feeling. Take a look at different boats once the family is really on board.

 

[Paul D H]

Thank you very much, everyone, for your sound advice.
I 100% agree, and we will be taking small steps along the journey to test the 'waters'. I just want to make sure we take the small steps in the best order.

Part of the reason for this dream is to 'artificially' slow down life a little while my family is still young and hopefully create some specials moments along the way. However, so I do not underestimate the difficulties along the way, I'm turning to this forum to ask for advice from experienced sailors and appreciate everyone's time in answering what probably seem like simple/ possibly stupid questions.

Thank you very much.
Cheers,
Paul

 

[KompetentKrew]

In April 2018 I had basically zero sailing experience - only a week on the lake sailing Topper dinghies when I was a kid 30 years ago, and afternoon sails on friends' boats a couple of times 20 years ago (I remember practically nothing of those). In 2018 I had been reading this forum daily for two or three years already, asking questions whenever I didn't understand something.

I don't work and was able to dedicate myself full time to sailing - I joined a club in Portsmouth and managed about 80 or 90 days on the water in 2018. It is really hard to get experience when you don't have your own boat, but I guess you could do reasonably well if you're paying full price for courses. It still won't prepare you enough though. From the Facebook crewing groups I managed to blag a delivery Dover to the Solent when I had only my Competent Crew, then 3 weeks crewing across the channel and cruising Brittany on one boat and two weeks Faro to Gibraltar and back with another skipper. I did a mile-builder Southampton to Malta (30 days) in October that year, which was when I realised for sure I deffo wanted my own boat - no doubt remained.

My Portsmouth club was like a boat-owning co-op and sailing with them I was happy to pay £50 a day to gain experience, including fees, shared provisioning costs and eating / drinking out. I did a trip with tallships.org which cost about the same when it was discounted, but the other longer trips were cheaper.

I looked at a couple of boats during the summer and autumn of 2018, and then visited the Netherlands in early 2019 to look at some, with the intention of driving down to Spain to spend the rest of the winter there. Instead I went on a date with a Dutch lady I matched on Tinder and, a few weeks later, ended up buying the second boat I had surveyed, a 40' Van De Stadt Caribbean. In May the previous owner helped me sail it back to the UK and now I singlehand it, but 2019's learning curve was slow and steep. I now feel comfortable offshore in a gale, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for anyone else unless I was confident the conditions would be reasonably benign; marinas terrify me.

So I did not achieve the goal of bluewater cruising, confident enough to take responsibility for a family, in 2 years despite dedicating myself to it full time. But you could do it faster if you paid more for courses than I did - I've sailed with and met guys who did some of the zero-to-hero yachtmaster courses based out of the Isle of Wight, and those seem quite good.

In my opinion you should get your Day Skipper and ICC and take some charter holidays in the Med or Caribbean - you could easily be up to bareboat / flotilla standard in a year.

At your most accelerated progress you'll be just about capable of sailing around the world when your oldest kid is just starting her GCSEs / important high school years, so I can't see how you can fit your dream with the family.

I think of myself as someone who had the dream and who is now in the process of achieving it, but two years later it's still slow going. In my opinion the most important thing you can do is get days on board - at the moment you don't have the experience to properly understand what you're proposing (not a criticism). The first 20 days on board make a huge difference in becoming a bit seamanlike, as do the next 30 or so - you can get your competent crew qualification in 5 days, but I didn't feel like I could describe myself that way until I had about 20 days.

Buy a smaller boat than you dream of. Boats are in constant need of fixing, and the costs rise exponentially with larger boats. Buying a new boat or one that is less than 10 years old will probably not insulate you from the work and costs of repair and maintenance. I was wrong about many of the things I thought I would need.

 

[Iliade]

Flotilla charter or one to two week live-aboard course with the whole family. See who doesn't like sailing.
If all enjoy it, get the boat and go sailing.

Go on a diesel maintenance course or a general boat maintenance course unless you are already that way inclined.

Allow quite a lot of funds for repairs and unexpected expenses.

 

[canvey]

First step, sit down with your wife and kids and watch 'Adrift', not Youtube channels.

No one going to question blue water and catamaran?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Get the basics in terms of Certificates but get yourself exposed to sailing under different conditions including heavy seas and navigation. Very soon you will know the extent of your abilities, capabilities and desire to go off with the family on lengthy voyages. Remember that experience is a factor of intensity not duration. Have fun and stay safe.

 

[[70521]]

What are your nations requirements? Most of the posters on here are UK based and are responding from a UK perspective. Every country has different regulations.

 

[Skylark]

No one going to question blue water and catamaran?

Go on then, what's the question

 

[laika]

No one going to question blue water and catamaran?

Waterworld is now on Netflix and I re-watched it last night. No-one's going to argue with Kevin Costner about the suitability of a tri for long term blue water cruising.

I now feel comfortable offshore in a gale, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for anyone else unless I was confident the conditions would be reasonably benign

I can appreciate that. I am not a worrier on a boat if I'm not responsible for anyone else but really feel the weight of my responsibility for the safety of my crew if I'm skipper. I'm well aware of the need to bluff confidence to put the crew at ease but it took a yachtmaster certificate, thousands of delivery miles as mate and 5 years of boat ownership before the confidence wasn't almost exclusively bluff and I would even consider letting someone bring a child along.

Perhaps it would be useful to know the OP's timeframe and level of innate self confidence.

 

[canvey]

Given the size of boat they are considering, I would knock off £20k from that £500,000 budget and hire a skipper.

Are you really going single handing?
Is your wife going to train up as, and handle being crew?

Why even spend that kind of money on something when something much more suitable could be had for a fraction?
Why not just charter a boat for 10 years @ £50,000pa and having someone else take care of everything else? (Rough estimate).

Waterworld is now on Netflix and I re-watched it last night. No-one's going to argue with Kevin Costner about the suitability of a tri for long term blue water cruising.

Worst case scenario, I'd pick something with self-righting capabilities if I was doing more than puddling around East Asian islands.

Let's add annual maintenance/deterioration into the equation.

I'm finding it hard to take seriously.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

As @laika and @canvey point out, you really don't want to be the only one who can handle a boat. We sailed with two kids, the first being 16 months when she started, the second 7 months. No way would I have contemplated it if my wife hadn't been more than competent to get us out of trouble if I was out of the picture. By way of a one-time job I sailed with hundreds of couples, and the only truly happy ones were the ones who had similar levels of competence. Unfortunately divorce or at least Mrs stopping sailing were on the cards for most of them. Wives know when husbands are bulshitting - and get nervous.

 

[canvey]

I 100% agree, and we will be taking small steps along the journey to test the 'waters'. I just want to make sure we take the small steps in the best order.

Are you really that wealthy to consider spending that much money on what, in my opinion, is separating yourself from the actual experience of the sea and sailing?T o me, it sounds like you want to replicate a cross between a 4x4 and luxury apartment on the sea. One that's great for gliding around azure atolls in perfect waters, like on the travel magazine covers, but will set you up for all sorts of other problems elsewhere.

I ask it as a two fold question because, if you are, I'd be concerned that you're just surrounded by a load of people who want to take your money off you. I say this not just as sailor but as someone used to be a driver for really wealthy people and was amazed at the insight into all these companies and services, and specialist media, that existed purely for that purpose. Selling them dumb expensive stuff they did not need and how lacking in imagination many of them were about how they spent their money.

Then you've got the overarching tendency of the marine industry these days, which is to charge 5 times as much for everything as it costs, and milk guys just like you are portraying yourself.

Please allow me to send you an invoice for my advice too ... 10% on final purchase fee. (I joke, but others charge 20%).

Here's a saver, are you British or have a British passport? Flag your boat as being British and you pretty don't have to do anything in the way of licenses etc. Just go get the experience and take the risks/responsibilities as you want.

Here's another £25,000 piece of advice. Don't buy a new boat to do what you're thinking about. Buy one that has been tested and proven and set up precisely for what you want. Apart from the lead line depreciation, a new boat is an untested blank slate. It'll need more spent on it.

They'll sell you all the shit they can on it, and add a few extras, but unless it comes with a captain and an [electrical] engineer to hold it together, all you'll be doing is setting yourself to pay a premium on top.

Why not go for something more simple and rugged? There's also a problem that if you go high end, and something breaks, and you're in the middle of nowhere you want to be, you're screw to get it fixed. Do you need the home conveniences to get the wife onboard?